Synchro trans for a 34 Ford?

[Menace Kustoms]

Is there a vintage, synchro trans that could be adapted to my car without cutting anything up? I'm just looking for a driveability improvement along the lines of juice brakes or 12V electrical. I've never driven a non-synchro trans before, it's a bit of a learning curve for sure.

[Charlie Stephens]

My vote would be to use the syncro trans that came stock in the '34 Ford. If you want to get fancy go to '39 gears and tower. If your stock '34 trans doesn't act like it has syncros you should have it checked out. Be advised that none of the early Ford transmissions had syncro back into first from second or into reverse.

Charlie Stephens

[Menace Kustoms]

It doesn'tl feel like it at all. I can't just shift from first to second or second to third without rev matching and really easing it into gear. I've never driven another car that needs to be shifted like that. If I don't, it grinds.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Menace Kustoms

It doesn'tl feel like it at all. I can't just shift from first to second or second to third without rev matching and really easing it into gear. I've never driven another car that needs to be shifted like that. If I don't, it grinds.

You need to have someone check out your trans. I have a '32 with basically the same trans and have no problems. You might contact Max Navarro (310 774-6723) about your trans. I haven't used him but he comes highly recommended. Max is in Santa Monica. If So. Cal. means San Diego or Bakersfield you might post asking for someone closer.

Charlie Stephens

[DavidG]

Charlie,

It seems as though he is seeking a modern fully-synchronized transmission, not one with just 2nd and 3rd gears synchronized like a '34, but 1st gear as well. Even in perfect condition, a '34 transmission can't deliver that.

[Menace Kustoms]

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Well, if it were at least synchro going 1-2 and 2-3, that would help a lot. I'm not as worried about down shifting. I live in the High Desert, Victorville area. I don't think there's really anybody really local that knows about these things. I'm expecting to have to travel a little bit.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Probably your best bet would be to install '39-'48 passenger car gears in your '34 transmission case and use a double detent shifter top with the wide 2/3 fork. These gears will fit the early case while some of the pickup truck gears will not. This would give you the equivalent of a "39 transmission" while allowing you to retain the original serial numbered case.

[coup34]

my 2 cents. install at least 239 ci, 39 box, Columbia rear, Use low ONLY if stopped. I am still enjoying my 34 since 1950.

[Torchie]

You can put the later gears into the earlier case but I believe that some modifications need to be done for gear clearance issues. I would contact Mac Van Pelt. Has both the knowledge and the parts that you may need.
Torchie.

[Vanspeed]

I have a 1929 coupe with a 39 case and 46 gears behind my 4 cylinder. Yeah you can't downshift from 2nd to 1st but it drives just great. I can keep up with traffic and it feels modern to me. I think you would be happy with a trans that is similar.

[Menace Kustoms]

Those all sound great. It already has a 59AB with a Merc crank in it, so it has the power to keep up with modern traffic. Does anybody have a definitive answer if the later years fit in the early case? Who is this Van Pelt? Is he a member here?

[JSeery]

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/index.html

They sell parts, but he is also a transmission expert and provides a rebuild service. He is on the barn quit often and also provides answers to transmission questions.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by Menace Kustoms

Those all sound great. It already has a 59AB with a Merc crank in it, so it has the power to keep up with modern traffic. Does anybody have a definitive answer if the later years fit in the early case? Who is this Van Pelt? Is he a member here?

Do yourself a favor and order his "how to book". Has all the info you will need and very helpful. Good luck with it.
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...trans-book.htm

[DD931]

It sounds like a totally different problem to me. He's talking about upshifting 1-2 and 2-3, not downshifting.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Menace Kustoms

Those all sound great. It already has a 59AB with a Merc crank in it, so it has the power to keep up with modern traffic. Does anybody have a definitive answer if the later years fit in the early case? Who is this Van Pelt? Is he a member here?

I can't be any more definitive than my previous posts. Have personally built 3 or 4 early transmissions ('35-'36 cases) with '39-'48 gears and planning to build two more soon using '35 cases and tops with wide forks. Built one for Glenn Sanders, a member here, last May for his '36 sedan and he loves it. You could pm him for his definitive response.
Do you know for sure which transmission and case is in your '34 now? The internal area for gears is same for '34, '35 & '36 cases. The clutch bell area on '34 case is shallower than later cases which restricts you from using C&PP larger than stock '34. If you get a copy of Mac VanPelts book it will tell you these things and much much more.

[Mart]

The 34 box, if in good condition will drive ok. I have a 39-ish box in my 34 but it has the old synchro design. It drives nice. You have to load the synchros in a certain way, applying moderate to firm pressure but not hurrying them. They will synchronise and engage the gear without crunching. They are "constant load" synchros. The later type will apply more synchronising force with added force on the stick. The earlier design will not. Hence the need to apply a steady load and wait for it to engage. I ran the 34 box that was in my 33 when I got it and that too was all right.

Your 34 box, if rebuild with good parts would drive ok and not clash when engaging gears.

That said, a box with later gears and synchros is better still.

Mart.

[Charlie Stephens]

You might contact the local chapter of the Early Ford V8 Club (earlyfordv8.org) and see if there is anyone good at rebuilding transmissions in your area.

Charlie Stephens

[larry/Texas]

When you order the Van Pelt transmission book, ask them to send you their new catalog. It has transmission parts plus a lot of other early ford parts. In addition it includes many drawings of Ford systems. Great books and a great guy.

1 800 299 7496

vanpeltsales.com

[rotorwrench]

The larger 29-tooth cluster from the later 1942 thru 48 cars will not fit in the early cases but the standard 28-tooth clusters used from 1936 on will. If it has a 59A it may already have a later flywheel & clutch type. Sometimes the clutch cover flyweights can rub on the early cases but I think that can be overcome with some Minor modification.

[Menace Kustoms]

How do I know which case I have? Can I take pictures and put them up here? What should I be looking for?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Probably your best bet would be to install '39-'48 passenger car gears in your '34 transmission case and use a double detent shifter top with the wide 2/3 fork. These gears will fit the early case while some of the pickup truck gears will not. This would give you the equivalent of a "39 transmission" while allowing you to retain the original serial numbered case.

I have installed a set of 48 gears in to a 33 gearbox with
wonderful drive-ability results.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Torchie

You can put the later gears into the earlier case but I believe that some modifications need to be done for gear clearance issues. I would contact Mac Van Pelt. Has both the knowledge and the parts that you may need.
Torchie.

No modifications to the transmission are required. However, a special puller / installer tool is required.

[JSeery]

An easy way would be to look at the vehicle number on the bellhousing area.

[Menace Kustoms]

I'll try and look when I get home tonight.

[JSeery]

You can also look at VanPelts site on transmission ID, but a lot of it is internal. http://vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flath...sID_3speed.htm

[rotorwrench]

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If it has the shifter tower that slants a bit to the rear, it is likely still an unmodified early 32 thru 35 type but the VIN on the top of the case above the inspection port should ID what year it is from. The later shift towers are straight up vertical. somewhere is 1938 they came up with what we now refer to as the double detent shift tower. They have a more positive shift & hold than the 36 thru 38 single detent shifter tower.

Mr VanPelt's early Ford 3-speed manual list what gear sets work with each other and fit what and it is full of information about the old Ford cog boxes. It is a must for the DIY early Ford enthusiast.

[Menace Kustoms]

Thanks guys! Looks like I have some reading to do.

[bobH]

Start with Bill Robinson, flathead engine builder, right off 18 near Central, 14043 Pioneer, 760-961-0518.
RG 158 is in Apple Valley, and Bill can steer you to anyone with trans experience and parts.

[Menace Kustoms]

Thanks! That's super local to me. I love this forum.

[russcc]

Get the serial number off the bell housing of the transmission, should start with an 18- with the serial number running 18-457,478 to 18-1,234,356 for 1934. Higher serial numbers are later years, lower numbers are earlier. Mac Van Pelts book covers all this information,

[Menace Kustoms]

Ok, like I said, I'll pick the book up. Sorry for being a newb.

[JSeery]

For just the serial numbers for each year you can go to their site. There is a chart posted there.

[Lawson Cox]

Get the number off of the case (Not serial number) and post it here.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

Get the number off of the case (Not serial number) and post it here.

I assume you are talking about the number cast into the case, like "78" or "48".

Charlie Stephens

[JSeery]

I would use the serial number steel stamped on the bellhousing. You can leave off the last coulpe of number if you post it. But you can look it up yourself, very easy to do.

[Menace Kustoms]

Thanks man, sometimes there's too much info! I start with the simple stuff.

[V12Bill]

You state that you have a 59A engine with a 4" crank. I would find it hard to believe that who ever did that, left the stock 34 transmission untouched. Even if it is the original case it may have later gears or even Zephyr gears. It may have suffered hard use behind that 59A engine also. I just recently rebuilt the trans in my 39 pickup because the gears were grinding in 2nd and 3rd. I found that the brass synchronizer rings were worn. The replacement rings did not improve the problem. I checked with Mac Van Pelt and he informed me that some replacement rings were made in India using worn out rings as a guide. I only replaced old worn out rings with NEW worn out rings. Mac has the correct replacement rings.

[Menace Kustoms]

Well, the car hasn't suffered any abuse, I know who did the engine swap, and he owned the car for 50+ years, but it did a lot of miles, so I'll check for signs of wear when I check the fluid level. Thanks for the input. If I get any parts to freshen it up, it'll only be from Van Pelt, per this forums advice.

[Menace Kustoms]

Okay, there's only one row of synchros when I look through the fill plug. The fluid level seems ok, but there are metal shavings in it and the brass ring looked a little worn. What's my next step? Just baby it and drive it until it gives out? Should I source another case and start putting another trans together to swap it? If so, what should I look for in a case? Thanks guys!

[JSeery]

That somewhat depends on what you want to do (an Alice in Wonderland type of question, which way to I go; depends on where you want to end up!). You could rebuild the one you have OR purchase another transmission already rebuilt or have the new one rebuilt and swap it out. The rebuild part depends are your mechanic skills. These are one of the easiest transmission to rebuild there is, but if you are not experienced with this type of work or don't have the tools to do it, it might be better to have it done. Same goes with the removal and replacement of the transmission ether way you go. The rebuild itself should not take very long at all if you have all the parts there to begin with. However, it is hard to know exactly what you need prior to taking it apart. Some of this depends on how long you want the car down and how much time you what to spend on it. IMHO none of this would require more work (and most likely much less) than attempting to switch to a different type of transmission.

[Menace Kustoms]

Well, I don't want the car down that long. Mechanical speaking, I'm pretty handy. Though I've never messed with these before, I built my first car, a 1970 Mustang, myself when I was 15. If I were to change styles of transmissions, it would need to look correct and require no permanent modifications.

[JSeery]

Then I think you best bet is to attempt it your self. Get VanPelt's book and look it over and see what is involved, then decide how long you think it will take you to rebuild one. Based on that rebuild yours or go for one to swap. Remember you are mostly going to be looking for a new set of guts if you are updating the synchros.

[Menace Kustoms]

So I just need to find a decent case to swap newer style guts into.

[JSeery]

I think you can swap them into your existing case, but I wouldn't get in a hurry buying anything until you totally understand what is involved, thru the reading.

[Menace Kustoms]

Oh, I'm not gonna jump on anything immediately. But I know myself, if I have to swap parts into the existing case, it'll end up taking forever to get it back together. It'd be easier to get it all nice and pretty and functional and just swap it in. My add kills me sometimes.

[Menace Kustoms]

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Spending the money isn't the issue at all. And I certainly want to do the RIGHT thing. I don't want to take any shortcuts believe me. I'll look and see if the case is original to the car, because I suppose that'll help me decide exactly what to do. But, the car isn't 100% original. Like I said, engine, brakes and electrical have been updated, but are stock appearing. But, I do see myself as a caretaker, and I will treat the car like it deserves to be treated.

[glennsanders]

Like john said,I love my new 3 speed .Its smooth ,no 2 gear pop outs.John did a great job.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by glennsanders

Like john said,I love my new 3 speed .Its smooth ,no 2 gear pop outs.John did a great job.

Glenn, the transmission in your '36 fordor really did shift nicely when I drove your car last year at the Gettysburg ENM. After driving your car, I knew I wanted to do the same gear change on my '35 coupes. What will really be interesting is to see how well the special forks for later gear sets, (that were special made for me), will work in a '35 slant back type shift top. At least two other sets of these prototype forks are in early pre '39 transmissions fitted with later gears and working well in cars that see at lot of mileage.

[choppedtudor]

Replace the syncromesh rings. Yes, later boxes are better but the 34 will do the job and it's a simple fix.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by choppedtudor

Replace the syncromesh rings. Yes, later boxes are better but the 34 will do the job and it's a simple fix.

You can't just replace synchronizer rings on the early (pre '39) transmission gear sets because they are not separate/loose parts. The synchronizer teeth are actually machined into other gears in the gear set.

[AnthonyG]

The '39 tranny and tower will fit in your car complete. You will need to use a '39 shifter as well. You might need to reform / bend the shifter for clearance & to get it close to the shape on your '34 shifter ( not hard) I used a conduit bender. The tower will sit approx 3/4" to an inch further forward so you will also have to cut a little bit of the trans floor cover in front of the tower. Once your floor mat is in place you will barely notice any difference. The car will shift much better and it's a more robust tranny which was made to handle more HP and shift smother. Still no syncro down shifting to 1st. But that didn't happen til I believe '54 or '55 and that tranny won't fit.

[dumb person]

Is the oil the correct weight? Just wondered if that might be causing symptoms and did not see any reference to it.

[Juergen]

Originally Posted by Menace Kustoms

How do I know which case I have? Can I take pictures and put them up here? What should I be looking for?

Look for the casting number at the bottom rear of the case. It will start with 18- (for a 32-34 style), 48- (for a 36 style) or 78- (for a 37 up style). I have found that some cases with a 78- prefix and a 48 cast in the inside will not take the 29 tooth cluster with ease.