The Ford Barn

RobR'35 · 05-24-2015, 07:28 AM

I've a '35 flathead with a crab type distributor.
Distributor is a fresh rebuild from Bubba. So right off I'm ruling that as 100% right.
All wires checked. New plugs and coil. Wired correctly. Coil is internally resisted.
What's happening is. I put this new distributor on on it doesn't run well at all!
The distributor I had on the car I had to have the adjusting plate all the way down for it to run.Why?
Before I set the points on the old distributor it ran fine with the adjusting plate in the center.
I've even went as far as pull the timing cover off to see if I've stripped a gear tooth.
All looks good with the timing gears.
What am I missing guys??

flatjack9 · 05-24-2015, 09:46 AM

The point gap directly affects the timing. If it is changed, so is the initial timing changed. I would think that it would be correct from Bubba.

RobR'35 · 05-24-2015, 09:55 AM

I agree its right coming from Bubba. Its why I had him go through it. I'm trying to find out why it runs poorly as set in the center of the adjusting plate. I don't dare to move it on the new distributor when I know its right now.
I feel I'm missing something. I'm real new to the flatheads.

Willit Stop · 05-24-2015, 10:17 AM

At the risk of asking a dumb question,have you tried to hook up a timing light and dwell meter?

Ol' Ron · 05-24-2015, 11:19 AM

Be nice if you had a timing mark.

Binx · 05-24-2015, 11:37 AM

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If you know the coil is internally resisted have you bypassed the under-dash resistor or is the circuit double resisted?

Lonnie

JM 35 Sedan · 05-24-2015, 11:58 AM

These questions assume you have a 35 camshaft with a press on type timing gear.....

When you had the timing gear cover off, did you make sure the timing gear is pressed on the camshaft hub correctly and the line mark on cam hub aligned with line mark on the steel insert of timing gear?
Also, did the dot/line mark on the cam timing gear (near the outer gear teeth) align with the mark on the crank shaft gear?

RobR'35 · 05-24-2015, 01:09 PM

Thanks Ol'Ron. Yep no timing marks
as for the resister,its bypassed. wire goes from on/off switch to coil directly.
Prior to all this the engine ran fair. I took the dist. off and changed the points because the points were pitted. When I took the dist. off the adjustment plate was near center.
After point change and point adjust as per the 2 ruler method I put the dist back n and it ran terrible.I kept moving adjustment plate until it ran better.
It still missed though.
I sent another dist. to Bubba. I got it back adjustment in center.
I put it on and it runs terrible.
As for timing gears.Ive never had them off and the marks align.
Also I'm unsure what type cam is in her.

RobR'35 · 05-24-2015, 01:25 PM

That is the marks on front of the timing gears align. Is it possible the fiber gear on the cam may have spun on the cam itself?

JM 35 Sedan · 05-24-2015, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobR'35

That is the marks on front of the timing gears align. Is it possible the fiber gear on the cam may have spun on the cam itself?

Yes, it is possible for the timing gear to move on the camshaft hub if the press fit is not tight. It is also possible that someone pressed the gear on the cam hub aligning to the wrong marks. There was a thread over a year ago where the OP put up a picture of the front of the engine showing the timing gear, and we could see the timing marks were not aligned properly.

RobR'35 · 05-24-2015, 03:32 PM

Running 6v pos ground. 2.3 ohms resistance.
As to timing marks. I checked this. The marks aligned. Spun the engine around a couple times with the crank. That part checks out.
I've ran the car down the road all last fall and a bit this spring. Ran way better then.
This problem started once I changed points.

RobR'35 · 05-24-2015, 04:43 PM

The coil I have in there is new from Macs. Why are they selling substandard stuff?

Ol' Ron · 05-24-2015, 05:59 PM

Have you done a compression test? This will just check the internals of the engine. Then use a large tie wrap in the #1 spark plug hole. Turn the engine CW till it stops, and mark the pully. Turn the engine CCw till it stops, and mark the pulley TDC us in the center of the two marks.
I forgot to add, make a pointer off one of the cam cover bolts.
Now you can see where the ignition is set and what kind of advance your getting.
When setting timing, remove the vac brake line. this will check the machanacal advance. add vac will allow max adv..

RobR'35 · 05-24-2015, 09:07 PM

Thanks Ol' Ron I'll do that.I'll keep ya posted.

RobR'35 · 05-24-2015, 09:42 PM

Ok Ol' Ron ,cold engine compression test shows #1,80 #2,90 #3,90 #4,68 #5,80 #6,85 #7,80 #8,90 I put a teaspoon of 3 in 1 oil down number 4 cylinder waited 2 min. and did test on it again. It went up 8 psi. all cylinders should be 110 at new correct?

RobR'35 · 05-25-2015, 12:37 PM

All right,I did the point and marked the crank pulley. I've made marks at TDC and 4 deg. BTDC. What happening is I spin the engine over a few times by hand crank until #1 spark plug sparks.I marked that spot and took a measurement.Im a total of 12.5 deg ATDC.So minus the 4 deg. I should be at I at 8.5 deg. ATDC. How is this possible?
What could have changed?

Mart · 05-25-2015, 03:12 PM

if you're 12.5 deg after tdc and you should be 4 deg before tdc then you are 16.5 degrees after tdc. (ain't you?). How did you locate tdc to make a pointer and a mark?*

I was thinking that if one set of points were not making contact, would that make it retarded, but I think it would be over advanced, and the dwell would be very short.

Mart.

* I wrote that before reading Ron's method. That's a good method.

RobR'35 · 05-25-2015, 05:23 PM

Im a total of 8.5 deg ATDC. I counted for the already 4 deg BTDC. I wrote it down wrong on my last msg...... oooops!

Mart · 05-26-2015, 02:01 AM

I wrote it wrong too, I meant to say 16.5 degrees after it should have fired, not atdc.

But it doesn't matter. you're still 12.5 degrees late, or 8.5 degrees atdc.

There are 44 teeth on the cam gear. 22 on the crank. if the cam gear was one tooth off (late) then you would be 16.36 degrees late. I would look again at the alignment of your cam and crank. You might be able to degree an exhaust valve through a plug hole and see if the cam timing is straight up or also running late.

Good luck with it.

I didn't take long checking my maths, if anyone can confirm or refute what I said that would be good.

Mart.

RobR'35 · 05-26-2015, 06:45 AM

To start. I took dist. off to look at points.At this point the engine ran fine.Meaning way better then now.Didnt miss,good acceleration.
At this point the adjustment plate on the side of the dist. was real near center.
the points looked pitted so changed them to NOS ford used ones I had.
Also at this point Im very new to the flat head V8. this is my first one.So Im in the very beginning of learning about there workings.
After points changed and adjusted,dist.replaced it had to advance the adj. plate all the way adv. in order for it to run smooth or close to smooth.
This is the beginning of where the problem lies.

05-24-2015, 01:25 PM	#9
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing That is the marks on front of the timing gears align. Is it possible the fiber gear on the cam may have spun on the cam itself?

05-24-2015, 03:32 PM	#11
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing Running 6v pos ground. 2.3 ohms resistance. As to timing marks. I checked this. The marks aligned. Spun the engine around a couple times with the crank. That part checks out. I've ran the car down the road all last fall and a bit this spring. Ran way better then. This problem started once I changed points.

05-24-2015, 04:43 PM	#12
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing The coil I have in there is new from Macs. Why are they selling substandard stuff?

05-24-2015, 05:59 PM	#13
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: '35 flathead timing Have you done a compression test? This will just check the internals of the engine. Then use a large tie wrap in the #1 spark plug hole. Turn the engine CW till it stops, and mark the pully. Turn the engine CCw till it stops, and mark the pulley TDC us in the center of the two marks. I forgot to add, make a pointer off one of the cam cover bolts. Now you can see where the ignition is set and what kind of advance your getting. When setting timing, remove the vac brake line. this will check the machanacal advance. add vac will allow max adv..

05-24-2015, 09:07 PM	#14
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing Thanks Ol' Ron I'll do that.I'll keep ya posted.

05-24-2015, 07:28 AM	#1
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	'35 flathead timing I've a '35 flathead with a crab type distributor. Distributor is a fresh rebuild from Bubba. So right off I'm ruling that as 100% right. All wires checked. New plugs and coil. Wired correctly. Coil is internally resisted. What's happening is. I put this new distributor on on it doesn't run well at all! The distributor I had on the car I had to have the adjusting plate all the way down for it to run.Why? Before I set the points on the old distributor it ran fine with the adjusting plate in the center. I've even went as far as pull the timing cover off to see if I've stripped a gear tooth. All looks good with the timing gears. What am I missing guys??

05-24-2015, 09:46 AM	#2
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,527	Re: '35 flathead timing The point gap directly affects the timing. If it is changed, so is the initial timing changed. I would think that it would be correct from Bubba.

05-24-2015, 09:55 AM	#3
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing I agree its right coming from Bubba. Its why I had him go through it. I'm trying to find out why it runs poorly as set in the center of the adjusting plate. I don't dare to move it on the new distributor when I know its right now. I feel I'm missing something. I'm real new to the flatheads.

05-24-2015, 10:17 AM	#4
Willit Stop Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Eureka Calif. Posts: 969	Re: '35 flathead timing At the risk of asking a dumb question,have you tried to hook up a timing light and dwell meter?

05-24-2015, 11:19 AM	#5
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: '35 flathead timing Be nice if you had a timing mark.

05-24-2015, 11:37 AM	#6
Binx Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Gloucester VA Posts: 1,042	Re: '35 flathead timing Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If you know the coil is internally resisted have you bypassed the under-dash resistor or is the circuit double resisted? Lonnie

05-24-2015, 11:58 AM	#7
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: '35 flathead timing These questions assume you have a 35 camshaft with a press on type timing gear..... When you had the timing gear cover off, did you make sure the timing gear is pressed on the camshaft hub correctly and the line mark on cam hub aligned with line mark on the steel insert of timing gear? Also, did the dot/line mark on the cam timing gear (near the outer gear teeth) align with the mark on the crank shaft gear? __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*

05-24-2015, 01:09 PM	#8
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing Thanks Ol'Ron. Yep no timing marks as for the resister,its bypassed. wire goes from on/off switch to coil directly. Prior to all this the engine ran fair. I took the dist. off and changed the points because the points were pitted. When I took the dist. off the adjustment plate was near center. After point change and point adjust as per the 2 ruler method I put the dist back n and it ran terrible.I kept moving adjustment plate until it ran better. It still missed though. I sent another dist. to Bubba. I got it back adjustment in center. I put it on and it runs terrible. As for timing gears.Ive never had them off and the marks align. Also I'm unsure what type cam is in her.

05-24-2015, 09:42 PM	#15
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing Ok Ol' Ron ,cold engine compression test shows #1,80 #2,90 #3,90 #4,68 #5,80 #6,85 #7,80 #8,90 I put a teaspoon of 3 in 1 oil down number 4 cylinder waited 2 min. and did test on it again. It went up 8 psi. all cylinders should be 110 at new correct?

05-25-2015, 12:37 PM	#16
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing All right,I did the point and marked the crank pulley. I've made marks at TDC and 4 deg. BTDC. What happening is I spin the engine over a few times by hand crank until #1 spark plug sparks.I marked that spot and took a measurement.Im a total of 12.5 deg ATDC.So minus the 4 deg. I should be at I at 8.5 deg. ATDC. How is this possible? What could have changed?

05-25-2015, 03:12 PM	#17
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: '35 flathead timing if you're 12.5 deg after tdc and you should be 4 deg before tdc then you are 16.5 degrees after tdc. (ain't you?). How did you locate tdc to make a pointer and a mark?* I was thinking that if one set of points were not making contact, would that make it retarded, but I think it would be over advanced, and the dwell would be very short. Mart. * I wrote that before reading Ron's method. That's a good method.

05-25-2015, 05:23 PM	#18
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing Im a total of 8.5 deg ATDC. I counted for the already 4 deg BTDC. I wrote it down wrong on my last msg...... oooops!

05-26-2015, 02:01 AM	#19
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: '35 flathead timing I wrote it wrong too, I meant to say 16.5 degrees after it should have fired, not atdc. But it doesn't matter. you're still 12.5 degrees late, or 8.5 degrees atdc. There are 44 teeth on the cam gear. 22 on the crank. if the cam gear was one tooth off (late) then you would be 16.36 degrees late. I would look again at the alignment of your cam and crank. You might be able to degree an exhaust valve through a plug hole and see if the cam timing is straight up or also running late. Good luck with it. I didn't take long checking my maths, if anyone can confirm or refute what I said that would be good. Mart.

05-26-2015, 06:45 AM	#20
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: '35 flathead timing To start. I took dist. off to look at points.At this point the engine ran fine.Meaning way better then now.Didnt miss,good acceleration. At this point the adjustment plate on the side of the dist. was real near center. the points looked pitted so changed them to NOS ford used ones I had. Also at this point Im very new to the flat head V8. this is my first one.So Im in the very beginning of learning about there workings. After points changed and adjusted,dist.replaced it had to advance the adj. plate all the way adv. in order for it to run smooth or close to smooth. This is the beginning of where the problem lies.