The Ford Barn

Mike51Merc · 05-11-2015, 07:46 AM

I don't think they're just gonna snap off at the first attempt to break them loose. It takes some serious force to break one of those bolts.

I believe that most bolts break when they begin to turn, get jammed, and then you try to force them to turn.

That being said, get a 1/2 drive breaker bar and try to snap them loose. If they turn and then jam, spray with lots of penetrating oil and use a back-and-forth motion. Never try to force a bolt that binds after turning a bit. Always go back in the opposite direction.

Add lots of patience. Every time I break something it's because I forgot to add patience, or the patience I had just ran out.

billfish · 05-21-2015, 09:00 PM

I finally got back to my problem with low compression in cyl #3. I removed head with a breaker bar with little problem, all 24 bolts came out. I found #3 exhaust valve looking really bad, see pictures. I used a fiber brush on a drill along with a small wire brush several chemicals and a lot of time and effort to clean under and around the valves as they were open. After inspecting the seat as best I could with a mirror and flashlight I re-installed the head and prayed. The praying did not help. The compression in #3 went from 40 lbs to 30 lbs. Now I'm back at square one. Car is back as it was, starting and running good but not firing at idle. Any suggestions, maybe the pictures will help.

billfish · 05-21-2015, 09:12 PM

no luck uploading pictures--2.38 mb

billfish · 05-21-2015, 09:30 PM

pictures I hope

Andy · 05-21-2015, 09:38 PM

That is an intake valve.

tubman · 05-21-2015, 09:51 PM

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I agree with Andy. The valve on the far right on the second picture is #3 exhaust.

billfish · 05-22-2015, 02:39 AM

problem does not change ether way?

scooder · 05-22-2015, 07:38 AM

That is an intake valve, you stated air coming out of the exhaust.
Pull the head (again) and intake manifold, then grab a spring compressor, normal G shaped works, no need for special "flathead" compressor, pull the exhaust valve and have a proper look at it and the seat in the block. You may (hopefully) get away with grinding the valve in. The seats in the block are hard on most 8BA's, so hopefully ok,
you may need a new valve.
Tell us what you find.
Martin.

billfish · 05-22-2015, 09:48 AM

Thanks for setting me straight on valve location. I think it's called learning the hard way. Before I do this again and after seeing the pictures do you all think the loss of compression from 80 to 30 lbs over a period of 12 months could be caused by this valve not seating properly?

54vicky · 05-22-2015, 03:44 PM

hard to tell exactly from pic but it looks as if valve is tweaked meaning bent on the stem.if you do not have a weak or broken valve spring then I would pull the spring off and try moving the valve up and down if bent it will never seat.it should be snug due to the guide but if not bent it will move by hand.the problem is that if the spring was broken or weak on start up with idle a little high if using choke the spring will have let the valve hanging and when the piston came up it does not take a lot to bend the valve stem.I have seen it where it hardly leaves a mark on the piston without a very close look.something to look at easy to do without any special tools.

V8COOPMAN · 05-22-2015, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54vicky

.........the problem is that if the spring was broken or weak on start up with idle a little high if using choke the spring will have let the valve hanging and when the piston came up it does not take a lot to bend the valve stem.I have seen it where it hardly leaves a mark on the piston without a very close look.something to look at easy to do without any special tools.

Sooooooo..........ya really think THAT piston might have kissed the valve in this FLATHEAD engine to bend the valve? DD

JSeery · 05-22-2015, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54vicky

hard to tell exactly from pic but it looks as if valve is tweaked meaning bent on the stem.if you do not have a weak or broken valve spring then I would pull the spring off and try moving the valve up and down if bent it will never seat.it should be snug due to the guide but if not bent it will move by hand.the problem is that if the spring was broken or weak on start up with idle a little high if using choke the spring will have let the valve hanging and when the piston came up it does not take a lot to bend the valve stem.I have seen it where it hardly leaves a mark on the piston without a very close look.something to look at easy to do without any special tools.

This is a flathead, the piston can not hit the valve no matter were the valve is.

Ronnie · 05-22-2015, 04:36 PM

Rethink the piston the valve situation.

R

48 coupe · 05-22-2015, 05:00 PM

I think some times we all speak before we think. If it were a two stroke it wouldn't hit either.

Mike51Merc · 05-23-2015, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfish

Thanks for setting me straight on valve location. I think it's called learning the hard way. Before I do this again and after seeing the pictures do you all think the loss of compression from 80 to 30 lbs over a period of 12 months could be caused by this valve not seating properly?

Yes. The valve could be burned or you could have pitting or a crack in the valve seat. It could also be a gummed-up valve guide and judging from your photos things were pretty gummy in there.

I hate to say it, but a similar loss in compression helped me find a crack that eventually got repaired.

billfish · 05-24-2015, 12:58 PM

Great advice from all, I'm going to take a break and just enjoy the car for now. I'll re-evaluate in the fall if it continues to run OK till than. Maybe a more extensive re-do is the smart thing to consider if Its going to get torn down that far. I'll re-post later, thanks again.

Bill

38 coupe · 05-24-2015, 01:30 PM

Do you have adjustable lifters? You might have an adjuster backing out, holding the exhaust valve open.

No matter what the problem is, driving it will not make the situation better.

billfish · 05-24-2015, 02:03 PM

Observing valves with head off they all open and close tightly when turned over by hand. Car is stock as far as I now so I assume the lifters are not adjustable.

Roger W Gerow · 05-24-2015, 02:16 PM

When using an impact gun, I would suggest first trying to tighten the bolt before trying to loosen it. Worked for me.

05-11-2015, 07:46 AM	#21
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: head removal I don't think they're just gonna snap off at the first attempt to break them loose. It takes some serious force to break one of those bolts. I believe that most bolts break when they begin to turn, get jammed, and then you try to force them to turn. That being said, get a 1/2 drive breaker bar and try to snap them loose. If they turn and then jam, spray with lots of penetrating oil and use a back-and-forth motion. Never try to force a bolt that binds after turning a bit. Always go back in the opposite direction. Add lots of patience. Every time I break something it's because I forgot to add patience, or the patience I had just ran out.

05-21-2015, 09:00 PM	#22
billfish Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: egg harbor twp nj Posts: 303	Re: head removal I finally got back to my problem with low compression in cyl #3. I removed head with a breaker bar with little problem, all 24 bolts came out. I found #3 exhaust valve looking really bad, see pictures. I used a fiber brush on a drill along with a small wire brush several chemicals and a lot of time and effort to clean under and around the valves as they were open. After inspecting the seat as best I could with a mirror and flashlight I re-installed the head and prayed. The praying did not help. The compression in #3 went from 40 lbs to 30 lbs. Now I'm back at square one. Car is back as it was, starting and running good but not firing at idle. Any suggestions, maybe the pictures will help.

05-21-2015, 09:12 PM	#23
billfish Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: egg harbor twp nj Posts: 303	Re: head removal no luck uploading pictures--2.38 mb

05-21-2015, 09:38 PM	#25
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,771	Re: head removal That is an intake valve.

05-21-2015, 09:51 PM	#26
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,319	Re: head removal Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I agree with Andy. The valve on the far right on the second picture is #3 exhaust.

05-22-2015, 02:39 AM	#27
billfish Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: egg harbor twp nj Posts: 303	Re: head removal problem does not change ether way?

05-22-2015, 07:38 AM	#28
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: head removal That is an intake valve, you stated air coming out of the exhaust. Pull the head (again) and intake manifold, then grab a spring compressor, normal G shaped works, no need for special "flathead" compressor, pull the exhaust valve and have a proper look at it and the seat in the block. You may (hopefully) get away with grinding the valve in. The seats in the block are hard on most 8BA's, so hopefully ok, you may need a new valve. Tell us what you find. Martin.

05-22-2015, 09:48 AM	#29
billfish Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: egg harbor twp nj Posts: 303	Re: head removal Thanks for setting me straight on valve location. I think it's called learning the hard way. Before I do this again and after seeing the pictures do you all think the loss of compression from 80 to 30 lbs over a period of 12 months could be caused by this valve not seating properly?

05-22-2015, 03:44 PM	#30
54vicky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Oakville Ontario Posts: 586	Re: head removal hard to tell exactly from pic but it looks as if valve is tweaked meaning bent on the stem.if you do not have a weak or broken valve spring then I would pull the spring off and try moving the valve up and down if bent it will never seat.it should be snug due to the guide but if not bent it will move by hand.the problem is that if the spring was broken or weak on start up with idle a little high if using choke the spring will have let the valve hanging and when the piston came up it does not take a lot to bend the valve stem.I have seen it where it hardly leaves a mark on the piston without a very close look.something to look at easy to do without any special tools.

05-22-2015, 05:00 PM	#34
48 coupe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Shell Knob Missouri Posts: 151	Re: head removal I think some times we all speak before we think. If it were a two stroke it wouldn't hit either.

05-24-2015, 12:58 PM	#36
billfish Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: egg harbor twp nj Posts: 303	Re: head removal Great advice from all, I'm going to take a break and just enjoy the car for now. I'll re-evaluate in the fall if it continues to run OK till than. Maybe a more extensive re-do is the smart thing to consider if Its going to get torn down that far. I'll re-post later, thanks again. Bill

05-24-2015, 01:30 PM	#37
38 coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Texas Posts: 1,631	Re: head removal Do you have adjustable lifters? You might have an adjuster backing out, holding the exhaust valve open. No matter what the problem is, driving it will not make the situation better.

05-24-2015, 02:03 PM	#38
billfish Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: egg harbor twp nj Posts: 303	Re: head removal Observing valves with head off they all open and close tightly when turned over by hand. Car is stock as far as I now so I assume the lifters are not adjustable.

05-24-2015, 02:16 PM	#39
Roger W Gerow Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Walla Walla, Washington Posts: 182	Re: head removal When using an impact gun, I would suggest first trying to tighten the bolt before trying to loosen it. Worked for me.