The Ford Barn

4tford · 03-02-2015, 03:12 PM

Well I guess you all know the story. Seller is a 12 hour drive away and says he had a head off and machinist says it is a good block. Well pics show the story. Pistons are .040. Question is can the bad hole be sleeved and thereby save the block????

V8COOPMAN · 03-02-2015, 03:24 PM

Ran good when parked, right? DD

mfagan · 03-02-2015, 03:26 PM

Looks like a great boat anchor....

CSArno · 03-02-2015, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfagan

Looks like a great boat anchor....

Think the guy selling it found it on the end of an anchor chain... WOW.

Admiral · 03-02-2015, 04:10 PM

This is terrible! I understand caveat emptor but it sounds like the guy outright lied to you. I'd be very angry and wanting a total refund plus extra for my wasted time and effort ...

scooder · 03-02-2015, 04:22 PM

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I would hazard a guess that bore is fixable, I really think you should have a real good look over this engine. That bad hole may just be the first find. Sgonna be the devils own job getting that puppy in bits.
I think I may have "accidentally" dropped it in the sellers parts of shame.
He flat out lied!
Martin.

4tford · 03-02-2015, 04:37 PM

He did say to bring it back on my next trip through his area and he would refund. I would rather put some more $$$ into this if it can be sleeved. I did clean the top on one side and the deck does look good.

Admiral · 03-02-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4tford

He did say to bring it back on my next trip through his area and he would refund. I would rather put some more $$$ into this if it can be sleeved. I did clean the top on one side and the deck does look good.

Well that's good then if he's willing to offer a refund, though I'd be leery that he'd have moved between now and then

!

Fibber Mcgee · 03-02-2015, 04:50 PM

Even if you sleeve it you should get a partial refund for that.

4t8v8 · 03-02-2015, 04:59 PM

We've all had it happen somewhere down the line. A deal like that made me a "See it before you buy it" guy. Don't know what you paid for it but there are bound to be much better ones out there. It might be fixed but "might be" can run into a bunch of money for nothing. Hate to see that.

jimTN · 03-02-2015, 05:23 PM

That one bore may be the least of your problems. With all that water down the hatch, the crank, rods, cam, lifters and oil pump may be kaput. Getting thise valves and guides out will be a break and destroy operation, no way they can be used.

KiWinUS · 03-02-2015, 05:40 PM

Bill so long as the cylinder is not broken @ the bottom where the new sleeve will need to register you will be okay to sleeve it . I would certainly magblock after you get it striped to be sure the hole in the cylinder is the extent of the bad damage . Be sure to get a "chrome moly" sleeve for that cylinder .
Cheers
Tony

4tford · 03-02-2015, 05:47 PM

Talked to the machine shop and they want me to pull the piston to see how far down the bore it goes. Hope to do that in the next day or so. If they feel it can be fixed reasonably then I will strip it down and carry on with a slow rebuild.

Fordestes · 03-02-2015, 05:54 PM

sorry to see that , This is the reason I can't afford to pay the prices some folks ask on e-bay, I realize sometimes sellers Just arent aware the characteristics of the failures that happen to these old engines and some buyers are not as experienced as well .I agreed to buy a used engine but first told the seller, I would pay his asking price if it passed inspection before I paid the balance ,the deal was if it passed I would pay for the mag. etc. If it failed he was to return my deposit and pay for th inspection ,
otherwise I would pay what I normally do and incur the risks, He agreed, the mains were cracked one cyl. split . The seller reluctantly refunded my money an threw in another block, the block he gave me was buildable even though it had the wrong main caps. I cant complain the engine was about 200 miles away.
some peoples definition of repairable is no matter what it costs, but that it is possible to repair it.
I have the phone number of a man that has a block he said he might sell , it is a bare block, I will see if he is seriouse about possibly parting with it if you may be interested.
fordestes

Ken/Alabama · 03-02-2015, 06:26 PM

I've built a few of those V12s. Believe me,it's like the monkey pissing into the cash register . It runs into the money!!!

Binx · 03-02-2015, 06:32 PM

As a last resort it would be a cool static display for your shop or car shows. You don't see these everyday.

Lonnie

4tford · 03-05-2015, 04:13 PM

I spent some hours on the block today. Pan and oil pump out. Pan looks good, oil pump was not stuck and rotates freely. Was able to get the crank out without to much difficulty once I took the clutch and flywheel off and it looks good. One piston came out rather easily and the rest are stuck big time. I drilled holes in the piston in the damaged hole and was able to break it up and remove without damaging the rod. I believe it can be sleeved in the bad hole. Now a couple of questions. How much overbore will these take? Currently at .040 and would like to be able to go .080 to be sure all cyls are good. What, if any, parts from the V-8 will fit the V-12. Will the valves, springs, guides and lifters fit? Found that the outside of all the rod bearings had a shim. Is that normal?? Thanks Bill

Ken/Alabama · 03-05-2015, 04:42 PM

It should go .080. Valves and guides will interchange with the V8. You can also use the V8 springs and lifters . V12s had hydraulic lifters starting in 38, so to use the Ford lifters the cam will require to be ground for them which I would do on any V12 rebuild. Bearings should not have shims.

4tford · 03-05-2015, 05:39 PM

I have not pulled a valve yet but they appear to be regular lifters with mushroom valves. Will pull one tomorrow.

Admiral · 03-05-2015, 05:45 PM

Are these V12 blocks made of better material than V8 blocks? I thought I read they had more nickle or something like that in the cast iron.

03-02-2015, 03:12 PM	#1
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	update on V-12 Well I guess you all know the story. Seller is a 12 hour drive away and says he had a head off and machinist says it is a good block. Well pics show the story. Pistons are .040. Question is can the bad hole be sleeved and thereby save the block???? Last edited by 4tford; 08-05-2020 at 08:02 AM.

03-02-2015, 03:24 PM	#2
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,117	Re: update on V-12 Ran good when parked, right? DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

03-02-2015, 03:26 PM	#3
mfagan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kaufman, TX Posts: 822	Re: update on V-12 Looks like a great boat anchor....

03-02-2015, 04:10 PM	#5
Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Oakland County, Michigan Posts: 562	Re: update on V-12 This is terrible! I understand caveat emptor but it sounds like the guy outright lied to you. I'd be very angry and wanting a total refund plus extra for my wasted time and effort ...

03-02-2015, 04:22 PM	#6
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: update on V-12 Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I would hazard a guess that bore is fixable, I really think you should have a real good look over this engine. That bad hole may just be the first find. Sgonna be the devils own job getting that puppy in bits. I think I may have "accidentally" dropped it in the sellers parts of shame. He flat out lied! Martin.

03-02-2015, 04:37 PM	#7
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: update on V-12 He did say to bring it back on my next trip through his area and he would refund. I would rather put some more $$$ into this if it can be sleeved. I did clean the top on one side and the deck does look good.

03-02-2015, 04:50 PM	#9
Fibber Mcgee Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Callahan Fla Posts: 1,149	Re: update on V-12 Even if you sleeve it you should get a partial refund for that. __________________ Wanted, a car with a " Dynaflex Superflowing Unijet Turbovasculator which is Syncromeshed to the Multicoil Hydrotensioned Dual vacuum Dynomometer. "

03-02-2015, 04:59 PM	#10
4t8v8 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 524	Re: update on V-12 We've all had it happen somewhere down the line. A deal like that made me a "See it before you buy it" guy. Don't know what you paid for it but there are bound to be much better ones out there. It might be fixed but "might be" can run into a bunch of money for nothing. Hate to see that.

03-02-2015, 05:23 PM	#11
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,509	Re: update on V-12 That one bore may be the least of your problems. With all that water down the hatch, the crank, rods, cam, lifters and oil pump may be kaput. Getting thise valves and guides out will be a break and destroy operation, no way they can be used.

03-02-2015, 05:40 PM	#12
KiWinUS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here Posts: 2,966	Re: update on V-12 Bill so long as the cylinder is not broken @ the bottom where the new sleeve will need to register you will be okay to sleeve it . I would certainly magblock after you get it striped to be sure the hole in the cylinder is the extent of the bad damage . Be sure to get a "chrome moly" sleeve for that cylinder . Cheers Tony

03-02-2015, 05:47 PM	#13
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: update on V-12 Talked to the machine shop and they want me to pull the piston to see how far down the bore it goes. Hope to do that in the next day or so. If they feel it can be fixed reasonably then I will strip it down and carry on with a slow rebuild.

03-02-2015, 05:54 PM	#14
Fordestes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 886	Re: update on V-12 sorry to see that , This is the reason I can't afford to pay the prices some folks ask on e-bay, I realize sometimes sellers Just arent aware the characteristics of the failures that happen to these old engines and some buyers are not as experienced as well .I agreed to buy a used engine but first told the seller, I would pay his asking price if it passed inspection before I paid the balance ,the deal was if it passed I would pay for the mag. etc. If it failed he was to return my deposit and pay for th inspection , otherwise I would pay what I normally do and incur the risks, He agreed, the mains were cracked one cyl. split . The seller reluctantly refunded my money an threw in another block, the block he gave me was buildable even though it had the wrong main caps. I cant complain the engine was about 200 miles away. some peoples definition of repairable is no matter what it costs, but that it is possible to repair it. I have the phone number of a man that has a block he said he might sell , it is a bare block, I will see if he is seriouse about possibly parting with it if you may be interested. fordestes

03-02-2015, 06:26 PM	#15
Ken/Alabama Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,265	Re: update on V-12 I've built a few of those V12s. Believe me,it's like the monkey pissing into the cash register . It runs into the money!!!

03-02-2015, 06:32 PM	#16
Binx Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Gloucester VA Posts: 1,042	Re: update on V-12 As a last resort it would be a cool static display for your shop or car shows. You don't see these everyday. Lonnie

03-05-2015, 04:13 PM	#17
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: update on V-12 I spent some hours on the block today. Pan and oil pump out. Pan looks good, oil pump was not stuck and rotates freely. Was able to get the crank out without to much difficulty once I took the clutch and flywheel off and it looks good. One piston came out rather easily and the rest are stuck big time. I drilled holes in the piston in the damaged hole and was able to break it up and remove without damaging the rod. I believe it can be sleeved in the bad hole. Now a couple of questions. How much overbore will these take? Currently at .040 and would like to be able to go .080 to be sure all cyls are good. What, if any, parts from the V-8 will fit the V-12. Will the valves, springs, guides and lifters fit? Found that the outside of all the rod bearings had a shim. Is that normal?? Thanks Bill Last edited by 4tford; 08-05-2020 at 08:02 AM.

03-05-2015, 04:42 PM	#18
Ken/Alabama Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,265	Re: update on V-12 It should go .080. Valves and guides will interchange with the V8. You can also use the V8 springs and lifters . V12s had hydraulic lifters starting in 38, so to use the Ford lifters the cam will require to be ground for them which I would do on any V12 rebuild. Bearings should not have shims.

03-05-2015, 05:39 PM	#19
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: update on V-12 I have not pulled a valve yet but they appear to be regular lifters with mushroom valves. Will pull one tomorrow.

03-05-2015, 05:45 PM	#20
Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Oakland County, Michigan Posts: 562	Re: update on V-12 Are these V12 blocks made of better material than V8 blocks? I thought I read they had more nickle or something like that in the cast iron.