The Ford Barn

bige386 · 07-04-2012, 01:22 PM

My 46 tudor sedan let me down again today. I have done just about everything I can think of doing to this car but nothing seems to work. Had the carb rebuilt, Installed a insulator between the carb and intake. New hi 200 condenser bought a new coil but haven't installed it yet Had skip rebuild pumps and distributor. Drove down to Tawas today which is about 15 miles from here for the 4th of July Parade and she ran down there nicely. Never went over 160. Got in line for the parade and shut it off for a while because we got there early. Later on I tried to start it up and no go. After sitting the temps went up to 190 which still isnt bad. She would roll over but would not fire. I am so disappointed in this car I'm ready to buy a For Sale sign and sell it to the first chump that comes along. The only thing left to do is change the coil. They coil on my car is a modern style coil so there is no rebuilding it. I have a 12 volt coil that is a high out put coil but don't know it that would work or not. I do know I am at the end of my rope with this car so if any one has any Ideas please send them my way.
Thanks .

ford1 · 07-04-2012, 01:39 PM

dont give up, first we need to find the problem, two things to check, after shutting down pull the air cleaner and see if fuel is running down the carb into the manifold, if so the fuel is being boiled out of the carb leaving it empty and flooding the engine, next put your hand on the coil, if its to hot to touch it you have a coil problem, your running 12 v? if so make sure you have an internally resisted coil, or a resistor on the coil, next time when you try to start the engine after shutting down, pull a spark plug and see if you have spark there, if yes no coil problem

Rebel Sympathy · 07-04-2012, 01:49 PM

Are you absolutely certain you have a vented gas cap?

bige386 · 07-04-2012, 01:59 PM

ford1 My car is a 6v charging system. I mentioned I didn't know if there was a difference between a 6v coil and a 12v coil. My brother has a reg 12 coil and one called a Flame thrower high preformance coil. and didnt know if I could use either one of these.

ford1 · 07-04-2012, 02:06 PM

you need a six volt coil on six volt system, the other two things i mentioned still need to be checked, a very hot coil means its shorted internally, or it needs a resistor, most 6v modern type coils need a resister to drop the voltage to around 4 to 4 1/2 volts, in less stated on the coil case its internally resisted

Rebel Sympathy · 07-04-2012, 02:12 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

And...... to offer a little more...... it has been my experience that when a condensor dies - it dies. However, when a coil starts cutting up, it can come and go - especially with rise and fall of temperature.

And I agree with Ford1, to wit: If a coil is too hot to hold your hand on, you got a coil problem. The coil may be dying, or it may need a resistor. But, something isn't right.

ford1 · 07-04-2012, 02:20 PM

does the 46 engines have the cross over port to pass exhast gas to the back of the carb to help heat the carb on very cold days, if so plug them, with pennies or cover them a very thin piece of metal, beer can thickness, under the intake gaskets, the ports run just behind where the carb mounts in the intake, these can generate a lot of heat on the carb

G.M. · 07-04-2012, 02:39 PM

Put the 6 volt coil on you had Skip rebuild along with the IH-200 and your hot starting problem wil be gone. The fans in these old Fords don't produce enough cooling air on warm days, forget parades. As you saw on the trip to the parade it cools good with the forced air comming in through the radiator. G.M.

Mike in AZ · 07-04-2012, 03:01 PM

does it have a good spark when it won't start??.....looked down carb at that time to see if there is gas spurt from accelerator pump when you work throttle??....Mike

1931 flamingo · 07-04-2012, 03:08 PM

You have a new coil BUT you didn't install it??.......................
Paul in CT

46ford · 07-04-2012, 03:10 PM

For hot starts mine does same thing. I use wide open throttle and it starts. Ether if it doesn't. It's maddening but it's what they do sometimes.

I'm downstate from you and it's 111 in my backyard right now.

George/Maine · 07-04-2012, 03:28 PM

Any coil thats say supper dupper stay away from Flame crap.
If you have a 6 volt battery you need a 6 volt coil.
Any Mopar 1950 to1953 Plymouth Dodge,49 Ford to 55 .
Also remove the resister under dash if in use.
6 volts coil don,t need resisters.
ONly the 1948 and older Ford needed them.
If the one under dash is wired you could be lossing 1.5 volts.

bige386 · 07-04-2012, 03:31 PM

GM ... I didn't have skip rebuild a coil for me. Just water pumps and distributor. My coil is a new style coil and there is no rebuilding them. I was wondering tho. Would it help if I moved the coil from top of the motor and placed it say on the fire wall or fender well someplace a little cooler instead of right on top of the motor. I also have a new 6 blade fan on it that put out a huge amount of air. But the air blowing across it is pretty hot going through the radiator.

Fibber Mcgee · 07-04-2012, 04:03 PM

I'd be tempted to check for a resistor like George said, its under dash on firewall alot of new style coils dont need it. Mine didn't have the resistor under the dash when I got the car and it has the new style coil and it runs great. Also like Ford1 said with it happening after being shut down with it that hot outside check for gas boiling out of carb. Good luck, I always try to remind myself with these cars it always a learning experience, don't give up.

jimTN · 07-04-2012, 04:10 PM

I'll betcha it is the gas you are running. It will boil on a hot day and when you shut the engine down, it perculates, floods the engine and pushes gas back to the tank. If you have a elec pump back near the tank you can pump gas back into the line for the engine fuel pump to pick it up. One of Skips flex lines with a check valve would also be a good addition. Around here you can see the gas foaming in a glass sediment bowl when you shut a hot engine down.

FlatheadTed · 07-04-2012, 04:19 PM

.You don't need to shift the coil as where it is it gets a cold draft off the fan .As the other es have said ,No guessing is it 12 volt or .Get a 6 volt coil (New ) one that you know is correct .a Model A coil will do .The one with the buff colourd top is excellent .Napa ??

bige386 · 07-04-2012, 05:08 PM

At this time I have a new coil on order it should be here any day now. I'm thinking a inline check valve might help out with the gas back feeding into the tank. there was a C/V on the new electric fuel pump i installed but it was leaking pretty bad so I removed it. This problem is going to drive me to drinking .

bige386 · 07-04-2012, 05:14 PM

The Resister is still under the dash on the drivers side. It has both wires on the bottom stud so I'm assuming it has been bypast. would it be worth while to hook it back up and see if it makes a different s ?
Thank you all for all of the input. This problem is driving me nuts.

FlatheadTed · 07-04-2012, 06:33 PM

If thats the case then its been by past ,I would not even bother to attach the resistor its there to supple Henry's original 4.1/2 volt coil . you likely have a Faulty 6 volt coil on there ,at the moment .A electric pump introduce more complications .You should reinstate the Ford pump but go through a check list to make sure its working OK .Then at a later date reinstate it if needed to prime the carb .

George/Maine · 07-04-2012, 06:36 PM

The new coil you had is this the 12 volt one?
First off did it start after a cool down,or did you come home on the tow truck?
You don,t say where you are maybe i could buy it .
These cars don,t like heat,better to stop and have couple of beers.
What you could try is get a fan the kind that was put to cool the driver and put it under the hood face fuel pump.I don,t do parrades for that reason overheating.

07-04-2012, 01:22 PM	#1
bige386 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	At the end of the rope with my 46. My 46 tudor sedan let me down again today. I have done just about everything I can think of doing to this car but nothing seems to work. Had the carb rebuilt, Installed a insulator between the carb and intake. New hi 200 condenser bought a new coil but haven't installed it yet Had skip rebuild pumps and distributor. Drove down to Tawas today which is about 15 miles from here for the 4th of July Parade and she ran down there nicely. Never went over 160. Got in line for the parade and shut it off for a while because we got there early. Later on I tried to start it up and no go. After sitting the temps went up to 190 which still isnt bad. She would roll over but would not fire. I am so disappointed in this car I'm ready to buy a For Sale sign and sell it to the first chump that comes along. The only thing left to do is change the coil. They coil on my car is a modern style coil so there is no rebuilding it. I have a 12 volt coil that is a high out put coil but don't know it that would work or not. I do know I am at the end of my rope with this car so if any one has any Ideas please send them my way. Thanks . __________________ The Lord is the light--allow Him to guide you.

07-04-2012, 01:39 PM	#2
ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: oroville ca. Posts: 1,554	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. dont give up, first we need to find the problem, two things to check, after shutting down pull the air cleaner and see if fuel is running down the carb into the manifold, if so the fuel is being boiled out of the carb leaving it empty and flooding the engine, next put your hand on the coil, if its to hot to touch it you have a coil problem, your running 12 v? if so make sure you have an internally resisted coil, or a resistor on the coil, next time when you try to start the engine after shutting down, pull a spark plug and see if you have spark there, if yes no coil problem Last edited by ford1; 07-04-2012 at 02:02 PM.

07-04-2012, 01:49 PM	#3
Rebel Sympathy Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: North Alabama Posts: 159	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. Are you absolutely certain you have a vented gas cap? __________________ **"There is no 'normal life'; there's just life." - Doc Holliday from the film Tombstone**

07-04-2012, 01:59 PM	#4
bige386 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. ford1 My car is a 6v charging system. I mentioned I didn't know if there was a difference between a 6v coil and a 12v coil. My brother has a reg 12 coil and one called a Flame thrower high preformance coil. and didnt know if I could use either one of these. __________________ The Lord is the light--allow Him to guide you.

07-04-2012, 02:06 PM	#5
ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: oroville ca. Posts: 1,554	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. you need a six volt coil on six volt system, the other two things i mentioned still need to be checked, a very hot coil means its shorted internally, or it needs a resistor, most 6v modern type coils need a resister to drop the voltage to around 4 to 4 1/2 volts, in less stated on the coil case its internally resisted Last edited by ford1; 07-04-2012 at 02:14 PM.

07-04-2012, 02:12 PM	#6
Rebel Sympathy Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: North Alabama Posts: 159	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) And...... to offer a little more...... it has been my experience that when a condensor dies - it dies. However, when a coil starts cutting up, it can come and go - especially with rise and fall of temperature. And I agree with Ford1, to wit: If a coil is too hot to hold your hand on, you got a coil problem. The coil may be dying, or it may need a resistor. But, something isn't right. __________________ **"There is no 'normal life'; there's just life." - Doc Holliday from the film Tombstone** Last edited by Rebel Sympathy; 07-04-2012 at 08:34 PM.

07-04-2012, 02:20 PM	#7
ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: oroville ca. Posts: 1,554	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. does the 46 engines have the cross over port to pass exhast gas to the back of the carb to help heat the carb on very cold days, if so plug them, with pennies or cover them a very thin piece of metal, beer can thickness, under the intake gaskets, the ports run just behind where the carb mounts in the intake, these can generate a lot of heat on the carb

07-04-2012, 02:39 PM	#8
G.M. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida and Penna. Posts: 4,471	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. Put the 6 volt coil on you had Skip rebuild along with the IH-200 and your hot starting problem wil be gone. The fans in these old Fords don't produce enough cooling air on warm days, forget parades. As you saw on the trip to the parade it cools good with the forced air comming in through the radiator. G.M. __________________ www.fordcollector.com

07-04-2012, 03:01 PM	#9
Mike in AZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waddell, AZ Posts: 2,540	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. does it have a good spark when it won't start??.....looked down carb at that time to see if there is gas spurt from accelerator pump when you work throttle??....Mike

07-04-2012, 03:08 PM	#10
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. You have a new coil BUT you didn't install it??....................... Paul in CT

07-04-2012, 03:10 PM	#11
46ford Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Nottawa MI Posts: 289	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. For hot starts mine does same thing. I use wide open throttle and it starts. Ether if it doesn't. It's maddening but it's what they do sometimes. I'm downstate from you and it's 111 in my backyard right now.

07-04-2012, 03:28 PM	#12
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. Any coil thats say supper dupper stay away from Flame crap. If you have a 6 volt battery you need a 6 volt coil. Any Mopar 1950 to1953 Plymouth Dodge,49 Ford to 55 . Also remove the resister under dash if in use. 6 volts coil don,t need resisters. ONly the 1948 and older Ford needed them. If the one under dash is wired you could be lossing 1.5 volts.

07-04-2012, 03:31 PM	#13
bige386 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. GM ... I didn't have skip rebuild a coil for me. Just water pumps and distributor. My coil is a new style coil and there is no rebuilding them. I was wondering tho. Would it help if I moved the coil from top of the motor and placed it say on the fire wall or fender well someplace a little cooler instead of right on top of the motor. I also have a new 6 blade fan on it that put out a huge amount of air. But the air blowing across it is pretty hot going through the radiator. __________________ The Lord is the light--allow Him to guide you.

07-04-2012, 04:03 PM	#14
Fibber Mcgee Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Callahan Fla Posts: 1,149	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. I'd be tempted to check for a resistor like George said, its under dash on firewall alot of new style coils dont need it. Mine didn't have the resistor under the dash when I got the car and it has the new style coil and it runs great. Also like Ford1 said with it happening after being shut down with it that hot outside check for gas boiling out of carb. Good luck, I always try to remind myself with these cars it always a learning experience, don't give up. __________________ Wanted, a car with a " Dynaflex Superflowing Unijet Turbovasculator which is Syncromeshed to the Multicoil Hydrotensioned Dual vacuum Dynomometer. "

07-04-2012, 04:10 PM	#15
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,509	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. I'll betcha it is the gas you are running. It will boil on a hot day and when you shut the engine down, it perculates, floods the engine and pushes gas back to the tank. If you have a elec pump back near the tank you can pump gas back into the line for the engine fuel pump to pick it up. One of Skips flex lines with a check valve would also be a good addition. Around here you can see the gas foaming in a glass sediment bowl when you shut a hot engine down.

07-04-2012, 04:19 PM	#16
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,705	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. .You don't need to shift the coil as where it is it gets a cold draft off the fan .As the other es have said ,No guessing is it 12 volt or .Get a 6 volt coil (New ) one that you know is correct .a Model A coil will do .The one with the buff colourd top is excellent .Napa ?? __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

07-04-2012, 05:08 PM	#17
bige386 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. At this time I have a new coil on order it should be here any day now. I'm thinking a inline check valve might help out with the gas back feeding into the tank. there was a C/V on the new electric fuel pump i installed but it was leaking pretty bad so I removed it. This problem is going to drive me to drinking . __________________ The Lord is the light--allow Him to guide you.

07-04-2012, 05:14 PM	#18
bige386 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. The Resister is still under the dash on the drivers side. It has both wires on the bottom stud so I'm assuming it has been bypast. would it be worth while to hook it back up and see if it makes a different s ? Thank you all for all of the input. This problem is driving me nuts. __________________ The Lord is the light--allow Him to guide you.

07-04-2012, 06:33 PM	#19
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,705	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. If thats the case then its been by past ,I would not even bother to attach the resistor its there to supple Henry's original 4.1/2 volt coil . you likely have a Faulty 6 volt coil on there ,at the moment .A electric pump introduce more complications .You should reinstate the Ford pump but go through a check list to make sure its working OK .Then at a later date reinstate it if needed to prime the carb . __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

07-04-2012, 06:36 PM	#20
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: At the end of the rope with my 46. The new coil you had is this the 12 volt one? First off did it start after a cool down,or did you come home on the tow truck? You don,t say where you are maybe i could buy it . These cars don,t like heat,better to stop and have couple of beers. What you could try is get a fan the kind that was put to cool the driver and put it under the hood face fuel pump.I don,t do parrades for that reason overheating.