Aries Stainless Steel Muffler

[Jamie86]

Last fall my parents went on the Glidden Tour, while on the trip his muffler clamp fall off.The Aries stainless steel pipe broke off at the back of the muffler. We had it welded back together, an found it is a poor quality
stainless steel IMO. Anyone else found this out ?

[steve s]

The only problem I've heard of is cracking from people tightening the clamp to the frame too tight to allow for thermal expansion/contraction, which apparently is greater with stainless than regular steel.

Steve

[Jamie86]

Vince,
The Aries muffler that is pictured on your site, looks just like what happened to dads muffler. I will not buy another stainless steel one again. It isn't worth the expense or the trouble IMO.

[Logan]

Almost every single stainless aries muffler i know of has broke off at the back. After so many of them breaking, you would think aries would fix the problem. My recommendation would be, if you have to buy another one at any time, to buy the non stainless one. It has the same performance, and over time it will hold up better. IMO. A friend showed me his stainless one after 20,000 miles and it was all black and discolored. It could probably be polished back, but who wants to polish their muffler all the time?

[al's28/33]

Someone should contact Joe Davis at Aries. He has been in the Model "A" business for many years, extremely helpful and will accept constructive criticism of his product. I have one of his "regular issue" mufflers since 2001 and haven't had an issue. I'm sure he would be interested to know of your problem.

[theHIGHLANDER]

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I gave up on stainless antique exhaust systems long ago. Aside from the mechanical and metalurgy issues, they just sound funky. They tend to "ring".

[d.j. moordigian]

You can take a new muffler or rewelded one and heat it with a rose bud in the
area of the weld to a dull red, then immediately quench with cold water too
anneal the area. This should help with the cracking....this only works on SS!

[Chris in WNC]

I have stainless Aires mufflers on 2 cars and have driven them for years with no problems. your results may vary.......

[Tom Wesenberg]

7 years on my stainless Aries and zero problems.

[RHD]

They only break because they are not mounted properly. The rear clamp has to sufficiently loose to allow for expansion and contraction. Not rattly loose, but sufficient to move if it has to. My stainless muffler has gone 27 years without the slightest problem.

[JBill]

I've had a Beaver SS muffler on my roadster for about ten years now with no problems, though I've been told (warned?) that the tack-welded seam will eventually rip open.

[theHIGHLANDER]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

You can take a new muffler or rewelded one and heat it with a rose bud in the
area of the weld to a dull red, then immediately quench with cold water too
anneal the area. This should help with the cracking....this only works on SS!

This is interesting. Usually to anneal (soften) you heat at a specific temp for a specific time and slow cool. Stainless is that different?

[Ca. Kid]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

This is interesting. Usually to anneal (soften) you heat at a specific temp for a specific time and slow cool. Stainless is that different?

That process works for aluminum. I don't think it applies to stainless steel.

All martensitic and most ferritic stainless steels can be subcritical annealed (process annealed) by heating into the upper part of the ferrite temperature range, or full annealed by heating above the critical temperature into the austenite range, followed by slow cooling. Usual temperatures are 760 to 830°C for sub-critical annealing. When material has been previously heated above the critical temperature, such as in hot working, at least some martensite is present even in ferritic stainless steels such as grade 430. Relatively slow cooling at about 25°C/hour from full annealing temperature, or holding for one hour or more at subcritical annealing temperature, is required to produce the desired soft structure of ferrite and spheroidised carbides. However, parts that have undergone only cold working after full annealing can be sub-critically annealed satisfactorily in less than 30 minutes.
The ferritic types that retain predominantly single-phase structures throughout the working temperature range (grades 409, 442, 446 and 26Cr-1Mo) require only short recrystallisation annealing in the range 760 to 955°C.

[ctlikon0712]

Depending on the Aluminum alloy you heat treat it to a T-3 or T-4 condition by taking an O condition up to around 500Deg. F for 30 to 40 min, then water quench. This makes it harder. To Age it to a T-6 condition it goes up to 900 to 1000 deg. for 6 to 10 hours depending again on the alloy, and allow to air cool. This is what I did for 5 years working for McDonnell Douglas in Florida. I never did stainless steel.

[amuffler]

Originally Posted by steve s

the only problem i've heard of is cracking from people tightening the clamp to the frame too tight to allow for thermal expansion/contraction, which apparently is greater with stainless than regular steel.

Steve

very important: Both steel and stainless mufflers must have room to move, there is a great deal of thermal expansion. Failure to allow the tail pipe to move through the clamp will result in cracking or failure of the muffler at the tail pipe connection to the muffler, it will also cause bending of the exhaust manifold and will most definitely cause miss alignment of the rear exhaust outlet to the engine block. Requiring installation of a new manifold. Most reproduction tail pipe clamps i have seen cannot be adjusted to allow for this expansion, they are made to small and not to the original specifications.

Keep your tail pipe clamp loose and you will not have any problems.

Joe davis
aries muffler.

[amuffler]

Originally Posted by Jamie86

Last fall my parents went on the Glidden Tour, while on the trip his muffler clamp fall off.The Aries stainless steel pipe broke off at the back of the muffler. We had it welded back together, an found it is a poor quality
stainless steel IMO. Anyone else found this out ?

You should have been using one of our insulated tail pipe clamps. The stainless steel mufflers expand quite a bit more than the steel ones. If you use a standard tail pipe clamp, it will not allow the movement required and eventually either the tail pipe will break at the back of the mufflers or you will damage your exhaust manifold. We now include these clamps with our mufflers, if you don't have one, we will send one for free. Please contact use 650-279-6609

[amuffler]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

I gave up on stainless antique exhaust systems long ago. Aside from the mechanical and metalurgy issues, they just sound funky. They tend to "ring".

They only break because they are not mounted properly. The rear clamp has to sufficiently loose to allow for expansion and contraction. Not rattly loose, but sufficient to move if it has to. My stainless muffler has gone 27 years without the slightest problem.
__________________
R.H.D.
Author of Model 'A' Ford technical manuals.
Supplier of good original RHD parts.
Joe Davis, Aries Mufflers 650-279-6609

[amuffler]

Originally Posted by JBill

I've had a Beaver SS muffler on my roadster for about ten years now with no problems, though I've been told (warned?) that the tack-welded seam will eventually rip open.

You might consider adding some additional welding at the seam, if you back fire, it will open up and ruin the muffler.

[nkaminar]

I have the plain steel Aries performance muffler and tail pipe on my Fordor and am very happy with it. The fit is good, the sound is good, and it seems to help my performance. I found that the stock clamp at the rear is designed to allow the tail pipe to move. The clamp that came with the car was not a reproduction of the stock clamp and it did not allow the tail pipe to move.

I experimented with a straight through exhaust pipe and tube headers, but aside from being noisy it was not any different than the stock exhaust manifold and Aries muffler. I think if you are racing and run up around 8,000 rpm, the header and open exhaust probably has some advantage.

[Model A Ron]

If you like Stainless go for it but I have a feeling a steel one will do just fine a car that is not driven in road salt.

[jeepguy1948]

I have no experience with SS Ariens mufflers, but I can say this as fact; 2 weeks ago our Local club had what we call “Over Under Day” where anybody can bring their Model A and our experts will go over it prepping it for the summer season. I decided to check that clamp on each car while it was on the lift. 10 out of 10 cars had the clamp wrenched down tight, 10 out of 10! On not a single one did the owners know that was a problem. @ of the cars had the exhaust leak at the exhaust manifold as is where the problem comes. I don’t know this for a fact but I’m wondering if the Ariens pipe is just a wee bit bigger (that extra breathing has to come from somewhere). Several of the cars had that clamp installed just as Les Andrews show’s it’s to be installed, the only way the clamp could be loosened was to actually loosen up the bolt and nut that hold the clamp and let everything “float”.

[Gene F]

Can I ask a related question. I have heard the bend is often not right, and they need to be heated up and bent. Any one have any comments? I have not heard the tone comment before, but I guess that goes with the territory.

[nkaminar]

The Aries product is reported to be an exact duplicate of the original muffler and tail pipe.

The nut on the bolt that holds the clamp at the rear should be a castle nut with cotter key or a self locking nut using deformed threads, not Nylon insert. That way it can be left a little bit loose.

[old31]

I have a Aries SS for about 5 years and love it.

[jb-ob]

Please describe 'loose at the rear clamp'?

Is it the tail pipe inside the clamp or clamp loose attached to the frame ?

I bought an Aries '28 style muffler for my '28 Fordor, not a show car but because I wanted the correct muffler for the car.

First I attempted to install an original '28-29 clamp which had to be 'spread' using a chisel in order to slide the clamp over the tail pipe. Instant the chisel was removed, the clamp locked in place. No way was this ever going to be loose.

I then ordered the approved Aries clamp, '30-31 style. Honestly I don't remember if it fit the tail pipe because now the muffler body was hitting the service brake cross shaft.

Last compromise was to use a clamp pictured in the Service Bulletins for a Station Wagon. While it too had to be spread with a chisel to install, at least the muffler body didn't hit the service brake cross shaft. Removing the chisel, this clamp locked in place as well.

I have no problem spending more to get more. It didn't work this time.

Hopefully 'your mileage will differ'.

[jeepguy1948]

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My crude definition is that you should be able to grab it with your hand and rattle it

[alexiskai]

I bought "Chris in WNC"s old Aries SS muffler and now I've just ordered the special clamp from Aries, so this thread has been quite timely for me.

[The Master Cylinder]

I have had a Aries S/S muffler for a couple of years now and have had no problems with it. The only issue I have had is I didn't like the shine so I buffed it with a fine Scotch Brite to make it dull.

[DJ S]

The only thing I dislike about the Aeries S/S muffler is the supplied "insulated" rear clamp. The padding wears out of it and starts rattling like crazy....I have replaced it a couple of times only to encounter the same results. I know I am not the only one, a fellow club member has the same issue.

[clifforddward]

FWIW, Neil is correct, and the insulated clamp as supplied by Aries includes a castle nut.

[Synchro909]

On my way to the National Rally in 2014 (a 2,000 mile trip), the rear clamp disappeared somewhere and the whole exhaust was dangling by the manifold clamp. Fortunately, someone saw it (from behind me) and told me about it. I immediately bought a new clamp from a vendor at the meet and installed it. It was one of those padded things and it didn't get me home again before it was rattling so badly that pedestrians knew I was coming from miles away.
Since then, I have used a different method of holding the rear end of the exhaust. I have seen a rubber ring used - like a modern car but I use the original clamp with a spacer so that it can't be done up tight. I wrap a piece of paper or cling wrap around the pipe where it will be in the clamp and load it with plenty of silicone. I choose a variety that sets fairy hard. I put 3 or 4 wooden match sticks in it and clamp it up so that I have a layer of silicone that thick all around the pipe. Once it is set, I trim it (fussy, I know) and drive on. The paper or cling wrap means the silicone doesn't adhere to the pipe and it can slide through it. The paper burns off quite quickly and I'm left with a silicone pad to stop the rattles. I have to redo it every 20,000 miles or so but that's fine by me. Never a problem since.
BTW, I have read many times here that the manifold tends to sag because of the weight of the exhaust hanging on it. I believe that is only half of the problem. If the rear clamp is too tight, as the exhaust expands, it will push forward on the manifold and add significant force to it in such a way that it can't help but bend. The pipe MUST be able to slide through the clamp

[amuffler]

The issues mentioned about the Aries Stainless Steel muffler were posted about 10 years ago. Since then we have taken steps to solve this issue of the the tail pipe breaking apart from the muffler. We found the expansion and contraction of stainless steel is 3 times as great a steel. We developed an insulated muffler clamp for the tail pipe, which allows the pipe to move back and forth and not create stresses in the joint at the tail pipe connection. We also changed the welding procedure at this joint. It is now stress relieved after welding. In the last 5 years, I have not heard of any failures where the insulated clamp was used. I would love to hear feed back, as we are constantly trying to improve our products. email anytime to: [email protected] We now include an insulated tail pipe clamp with all our stainless steel mufflers, if anyone has a stainless muffler and does not have an insulated clamp, please call or send an email, we will send you one free of charge.

[nkaminar]

Synchro brought up the subject of the cast iron creeping over time due to stress on it. Cast iron will grow when heated even without any stress on it. If anyone has seen an old wood burning stove that has been used for years, the cast iron grates in the firebox are all warped out of shape. This is the reason many were discarded. Cast iron will take a permanent set when stressed and heated but it takes a high temperature, red hot.

Old model airplane engine had cast iron pistons and no rings. The pistons would wear and the engine would loose compression after a while. The fix is to heat the pistons so that they would expand to restore the compression.

When making cast iron piston rings, the rings are machined round to the bore. After they are completed the ring is broken in one spot and then a piece of metal is inserted at the break to expand the rings. The ring is then heated and takes a permanent set so that it is spring loaded against the cylinder wall. I cannot remember the temperature. I think I had a furnace and heated the rings to dull red heat. But don't quote me on that.

Warped cast iron manifolds can be straightened by carefully bending the manifold after the cast iron is brought to a cherry red heat. This works about 50% of the time, the other times the manifold cracks.

[nkaminar]

To bring the discussion back to the subject at hand. I have the Ares performance muffler, not stainless, and am very happy with it. My engine puts out about 80 hp. I have tried headers and an open exhaust system but the stock exhaust manifold with the Ares muffler is just as good, and certainly not as noisy. I have the original style clamp in the back and keep it loose enough that the pipe can move.

[Keith True]

I put an Aries stainless muffler on my 30 pickup about 18 years ago.It has been used for around 26,000 miles since then.I've never had a problem with the original type clamp on it.I bought the muffler from LeBaron Bonney after they came back from a show.The muffler had been dropped,and had a little dent.I got it pretty cheap,as is,where is.I was on my own as far as fit.I had a pipe bender and made a couple of adjustments,so I could hold it in place with a nice fit to the manifold and a nice fit through the clamp.No jacking,pulling,or pushing to get it there.Zero stress on anything to clamp it up.I don't know if the insulated clamp would do anything for me or not.I happened to be in LB for something small,and spotted that muffler on the showroom floor.I strapped it on to my motorcycle verticaly,and rode the 12 miles or so home.Looked like I had a big chrome stack.

[Ordsgt]

I have an Aries Stainless on my 30 Tudor and have about 6500 miles on it and no issues. I do have the clamp from Aries that has the insulator and have it mounted as specified. No issues at all. Would buy again, and probably will on current build

[ThosD]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

I have the Ares performance muffler, not stainless, and am very happy with it.

Can you comment on the sound/noise level of the performance muffler; does the reduced back pressure offer a noticeable improvement in performance?
TIA, Tom

[Gene F]

nkaminar this is good info. Thanks

[P.S.]

Here is a video of Joe Davis himself talking about this subject- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMeM5WbKkOg

Here is a video comparing the Aries steel muffler to the other repro one- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK_ixIUdyMQ&t=180s

[jeepguy1948]

Our local club has what we call a “get out and get under” day every spring where some of us help out the less mechanically inclined in hopes of keeping them on the road and participating in our activities. For grins I assigned myself the task of checking the exhaust clamps. I would say that at least 3 of every 4 are wrong. Your results may vary…….

[Bob Bidonde]

This slide may help you.

[nkaminar]

ThosD, I think the performance Ares muffler sounds more like what I remember Model A's sounding like when I was a kid, but I am not sure. I don't hear anything like I did when I was a kid. Without my hearing aids I don't hear anything. I can only comment on the different between the stock manifold and Ares performance muffler and headers with a straight pipe. The performance was the same. I think if you were racing and running the engine at 7,000 rpm the headers would help. The subject of having a tuned exhaust system is a whole different topic.

Jeepguy, My Model T club would have technical sessions where a member would invite the club to their house to discuss some issue with their car. The person hosting the technical session would supply lunch, usually BBQ pork sandwiches.

[Phil Brown]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

This slide may help you.

Bob, you forgot one thing about the clamp.....Must not rattle

[ModelA29]

SS is not like regular steel that hardens if you quench it after heating.


Unlike martensitic steels, the austenitic stainless steels are not hardenable by heat treatment as no phase changes occur on heating or cooling. Softening is done by heating in the 1050/1200°C range, ideally followed by rapid cooling.

[Bob Bidonde]

Hi Phil!

There is a clamp with a non-metallic liner available that should make an improvement.