The Ford Barn

34pickup · 05-29-2016, 08:08 PM

Does anyone have and good ideas on how to keep the stamped numbers in a straight line when stamping the frame rails?
Don't bother to tell me not to do it.

39topless · 05-29-2016, 08:15 PM

1Corinthians 6:9-11

Kube · 05-29-2016, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 34pickup

Does anyone have and good ideas on how to keep the stamped numbers in a straight line when stamping the frame rails?
Don't bother to tell me not to do it.

Clamp a straight edge to the frame. A piece of angle iron works well in that it will give you a "back stop" of sorts top help steady your hand.

34pickup · 05-29-2016, 08:31 PM

Thanks Kube. I will practice that method a couple of times on scrap first.

34pickup · 05-29-2016, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 39topless

1Corinthians 6:9-11

For my purpose, this isn't wrong.

Roger W Gerow · 05-29-2016, 09:44 PM

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You must remember these numbers were stamped by hand and with no straight edge or angle iron. If you use this method they will look machine stamped and a trained eye will notice the difference. I've seen some that the individual number was stamped at an angle instead of vertical. Just saying.

bobs1938ford · 05-29-2016, 10:00 PM

I restamped the frame on my 38 and was surprised on how hard I had to hit the stamp, really had to hit it. Used a lead hammer.

bob

rotorwrench · 05-30-2016, 09:06 AM

I have to restamp data plates for aircraft parts after they have been modified or upgraded. Folks that did free hand stamping back in the day had to know the positioning of there stamps VERY well. If they did it a lot then they got good at it. I use masking tape as the bottom line since not all surfaces are flat. I mark where the centers of each number need to be, based on the width of the characters, directly on the tape. I have center marks on each of my stamps. You can get a feel for when the character just touches the tape when positioning. After I have them aligned I giver er a good pop with the hammer. If a person has more time, they can get more elaborate about their layout but I've found that I get better results if I don't over think about what I'm doing and just concentrate on keeping things aligned in all three axes.

Reproduction stamps are getting more expensive. A person has to take good care of them. They are easy to damage even if well heat treated.

Kube · 05-30-2016, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I have to restamp data plates for aircraft parts after they have been modified or upgraded. Folks that did free hand stamping back in the day had to know the positioning of there stamps VERY well. If they did it a lot then they got good at it. I use masking tape as the bottom line since not all surfaces are flat. I mark where the centers of each number need to be, based on the width of the characters, directly on the tape. I have center marks on each of my stamps. You can get a feel for when the character just touches the tape when positioning. After I have them aligned I giver er a good pop with the hammer. If a person has more time, they can get more elaborate about their layout but I've found that I get better results if I don't over think about what I'm doing and just concentrate on keeping things aligned in all three axes.

Reproduction stamps are getting more expensive. A person has to take good care of them. They are easy to damage even if well heat treated.

Rotorwrench,
As usual you offer great advice. I did not elaborate as to the entire method I have used in the past but let's just say, I am certain you and most others would agree I over think it. Hey, I am a retired tool maker - that's what we do

rotorwrench · 05-30-2016, 09:25 AM

This world would still be in the dark ages if it weren't for folks that are obsessive and compulsive to some degree. I try not to be for the sake of sanity but it's always borderline for me.

Bored&Stroked · 05-30-2016, 09:48 AM

Nothing wrong with an extreme level of perfectionism . . . I suffer from the same plight. There are times to mitigate it - just not that many!

34pickup · 05-30-2016, 10:01 AM

Thanks for the tips. To those who frown upon doing frame stamping, I am not changing anything, that would be illegal; I am just adding an additional stamp.

Kube · 05-30-2016, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

This world would still be in the dark ages if it weren't for folks that are obsessive and compulsive to some degree. I try not to be for the sake of sanity but it's always borderline for me.

"OCD" Who, me? HA! I consider myself one of the fortunate ones that although having OCD, I have managed to make it work for me for the most part.
Being a tool maker was the perfect career and restoring '39 & '40 Fords to the level I expect of myself has also been a great place to harness this plight of mine.
Rotorwrench, it is apparent by many of your Fordbarn responses that you suffer from this to some degree as well. Your previous comment in regard to "...the sake of sanity..." is so accurate.
I truly believe those that do not have OCD will never understand fully those of us that do. I also am guessing they are overall healthier.
Not crossing that border you reference is difficult most of the time

51 MERC-CT · 05-30-2016, 10:15 AM

Do the same as they did in the factory, a couple of shots of your favorite alcoholic beverage

flatrod · 05-30-2016, 10:18 AM

Where can I find the star that begins and ends the vin number?

VeryTangled · 05-30-2016, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 34pickup

Thanks for the tips. To those who frown upon doing frame stamping, I am not changing anything, that would be illegal; I am just adding an additional stamp.

Hi Everyone, Well it would be amusing if, twenty years from now, someone stumbles on this thread, and discovers the answer to their mystery of why this frame is the way it is.

As for the star, I found a reference in an old thread... http://www.mcmaster.com/#symbol-stamps/=g4yw66 Looks like it may be a "Symbol M1"

40cpe · 05-30-2016, 12:48 PM

I can understand 34pickup's desire to place the number in a different location. When I installed the MII crossmember in my '40 (back in the late '80s) the "hat" for the top spring pocket was directly across the original VIN. I stopped the weld before it got to the VIN and resumed on the other side so as not to destroy the original VIN. For my own satisfaction I stamped the VIN on the frame just ahead of the firewall. If it became necessary the welded piece could be removed to reveal the original VIN.

34fordy · 05-30-2016, 01:36 PM

I would think that a block of wood or steel tightly wedged between the top and bottom members of the frame, would create a more solid surface and not require nearly as much WHACK with the hammer. I believe it would leave a more consistent mark from the stamp.

hotcoupe · 05-30-2016, 06:40 PM

i have used a piece of paper and a pencil held at a low angle, to make a tracing of the old numbers for a pattern. then just position your pattern, tape it in place and use the images of the numbers to position the stamp. works for me.
tom

rotorwrench · 05-30-2016, 07:16 PM

These old frames get rusted out. I see no reason why a person can't do a re-stamp after a related repair. I don't condone fraud but there is room for non-fraudulent use of stamps in my book.

Fordors · 05-30-2016, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

These old frames get rusted out. I see no reason why a person can't do a re-stamp after a related repair. I don't condone fraud but there is room for non-fraudulent use of stamps in my book.

Well said and I most definitely agree. As far as stamping an early Ford goes though I would stamp with no guide lines, just as was done BITD on the assembly line.

johnny · 05-30-2016, 08:04 PM

I replaced the frame on a38 ,so cut the SN. area from the original and bolted it to the replacement in the correct area .Johnny.

bobH · 05-30-2016, 09:32 PM

Probably unrelated, possibly remotely related... I was admiring a 32 3W street rod at a car show. The SN was clearly visible, and I immediately noticed it was NOT a 32 SN, and also that it was clearly a factory stamping. I made a note of the number, and later looked it up. The SN on this frame was for a 41, and the fabricator had obviously and carefully grafted it into that repro, street-rod 32 frame. Though not exactly related, my point is that somewhere along here is a line, if crossed, leans towards fraud. Point, be careful. In my state, I'm pretty sure that ANY re-stamp is illegal. Not sure about that, but worth looking up if one is tempted. Just opinion...
I'm aware of, and have first-hand knowledge of, one example where the person with a 32 (not the example above) had the car impounded by the state, and as far as I'm aware, I believe it was 'bye-bye-car'. I happened to be the party with the correct, original 32, which happened to have a serial number that duplicated the number the other person had been using. Actually, I'm not sure of the final outcome, as I was friends with the DMV Manager that caught this, and a deal could have been made with the other party for him to bring his car into compliance. My DMV Manager-friend suggested that a deal was possible.

cas3 · 05-30-2016, 10:42 PM

slightly OT, but i have a 34 canadian frame which they used larger stamps, like maybe 7/16, on most of the numbers, but one or two(i forget) are the same size as the trans numbers, 3/8 or so. i sanded down to clean metal and cant see any sign of tampering, i wonder did the guy on the line that day drop his big punch and use the little one until lunch break!!! i havnt applied for title yet, but i bet they wont like it

Mike51Merc · 05-31-2016, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobH

Probably unrelated, possibly remotely related... I was admiring a 32 3W street rod at a car show. The SN was clearly visible, and I immediately noticed it was NOT a 32 SN, and also that it was clearly a factory stamping. I made a note of the number, and later looked it up. The SN on this frame was for a 41, and the fabricator had obviously and carefully grafted it into that repro, street-rod 32 frame. Though not exactly related, my point is that somewhere along here is a line, if crossed, leans towards fraud. Point, be careful. In my state, I'm pretty sure that ANY re-stamp is illegal. Not sure about that, but worth looking up if one is tempted. Just opinion...
I'm aware of, and have first-hand knowledge of, one example where the person with a 32 (not the example above) had the car impounded by the state, and as far as I'm aware, I believe it was 'bye-bye-car'. I happened to be the party with the correct, original 32, which happened to have a serial number that duplicated the number the other person had been using. Actually, I'm not sure of the final outcome, as I was friends with the DMV Manager that caught this, and a deal could have been made with the other party for him to bring his car into compliance. My DMV Manager-friend suggested that a deal was possible.

I agree. You may have honest intentions, but you don't want to get caught up trying to defend yourself against accusations of wrongdoing.

JSeery · 05-31-2016, 11:37 AM

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I might be wrong, but it was my understanding that it was illegal to tamper with vehicle ID numbers in any way, including adding additional number locations.

39topless · 05-31-2016, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

I might be wrong, but it was my understanding that it was illegal to tamper with vehicle ID numbers in any way, including adding additional number locations.

That is absolutely correct, no matter what the "justification" is for doing so. If we can't rely on the accuracy (lawfulness) of the stamped vehicle number, we have nothing.

Tony, NY · 05-31-2016, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatrod

Where can I find the star that begins and ends the vin number?

Here it is, for a price...
http://restostamps.com/index.php?opt...id=1&Itemid=26

34pickup · 06-01-2016, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

Here it is, for a price...
http://restostamps.com/index.php?opt...id=1&Itemid=26

McMaster-Carr has them for $11.

Charlie Stephens · 06-01-2016, 12:55 PM

Since I don't have the whole picture I am going to throw something into the mix. The number on the frame should be visible by lifting the hood. What is wrong with that location? A knowledgeable DMV inspector (if they exist) would look in that location and be suspicious if the number is in a different location.

Charlie Stephens

05-29-2016, 08:08 PM	#1
34pickup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntsville Al Posts: 1,526	Good techniques for restamping frame? Does anyone have and good ideas on how to keep the stamped numbers in a straight line when stamping the frame rails? Don't bother to tell me not to do it. __________________ Matt 24:36-41

05-29-2016, 08:15 PM	#2
39topless Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,027	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? 1Corinthians 6:9-11

05-29-2016, 08:31 PM	#4
34pickup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntsville Al Posts: 1,526	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? Thanks Kube. I will practice that method a couple of times on scrap first. __________________ Matt 24:36-41

05-29-2016, 09:44 PM	#6
Roger W Gerow Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Walla Walla, Washington Posts: 182	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) You must remember these numbers were stamped by hand and with no straight edge or angle iron. If you use this method they will look machine stamped and a trained eye will notice the difference. I've seen some that the individual number was stamped at an angle instead of vertical. Just saying. __________________ DD658

05-29-2016, 10:00 PM	#7
bobs1938ford Junior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: fremont oh Posts: 13	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? I restamped the frame on my 38 and was surprised on how hard I had to hit the stamp, really had to hit it. Used a lead hammer. bob

05-30-2016, 09:06 AM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? I have to restamp data plates for aircraft parts after they have been modified or upgraded. Folks that did free hand stamping back in the day had to know the positioning of there stamps VERY well. If they did it a lot then they got good at it. I use masking tape as the bottom line since not all surfaces are flat. I mark where the centers of each number need to be, based on the width of the characters, directly on the tape. I have center marks on each of my stamps. You can get a feel for when the character just touches the tape when positioning. After I have them aligned I giver er a good pop with the hammer. If a person has more time, they can get more elaborate about their layout but I've found that I get better results if I don't over think about what I'm doing and just concentrate on keeping things aligned in all three axes. Reproduction stamps are getting more expensive. A person has to take good care of them. They are easy to damage even if well heat treated.

05-30-2016, 09:25 AM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? This world would still be in the dark ages if it weren't for folks that are obsessive and compulsive to some degree. I try not to be for the sake of sanity but it's always borderline for me.

05-30-2016, 09:48 AM	#11
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,068	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? Nothing wrong with an extreme level of perfectionism . . . I suffer from the same plight. There are times to mitigate it - just not that many!

05-30-2016, 10:01 AM	#12
34pickup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntsville Al Posts: 1,526	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? Thanks for the tips. To those who frown upon doing frame stamping, I am not changing anything, that would be illegal; I am just adding an additional stamp. __________________ Matt 24:36-41

05-30-2016, 10:15 AM	#14
51 MERC-CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Hartford, Ct Posts: 5,898	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? Do the same as they did in the factory, a couple of shots of your favorite alcoholic beverage __________________ DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES

05-30-2016, 10:18 AM	#15
flatrod Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 291	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? Where can I find the star that begins and ends the vin number?

05-30-2016, 12:48 PM	#17
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? I can understand 34pickup's desire to place the number in a different location. When I installed the MII crossmember in my '40 (back in the late '80s) the "hat" for the top spring pocket was directly across the original VIN. I stopped the weld before it got to the VIN and resumed on the other side so as not to destroy the original VIN. For my own satisfaction I stamped the VIN on the frame just ahead of the firewall. If it became necessary the welded piece could be removed to reveal the original VIN.

05-30-2016, 01:36 PM	#18
34fordy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Fort dodge, Iowa Posts: 825	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? I would think that a block of wood or steel tightly wedged between the top and bottom members of the frame, would create a more solid surface and not require nearly as much WHACK with the hammer. I believe it would leave a more consistent mark from the stamp.

05-30-2016, 06:40 PM	#19
hotcoupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: imperial,mo Posts: 694	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? i have used a piece of paper and a pencil held at a low angle, to make a tracing of the old numbers for a pattern. then just position your pattern, tape it in place and use the images of the numbers to position the stamp. works for me. tom

05-30-2016, 07:16 PM	#20
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? These old frames get rusted out. I see no reason why a person can't do a re-stamp after a related repair. I don't condone fraud but there is room for non-fraudulent use of stamps in my book.

05-30-2016, 08:04 PM	#22
johnny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: London On, Can. Posts: 377	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? I replaced the frame on a38 ,so cut the SN. area from the original and bolted it to the replacement in the correct area .Johnny.

05-30-2016, 09:32 PM	#23
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? Probably unrelated, possibly remotely related... I was admiring a 32 3W street rod at a car show. The SN was clearly visible, and I immediately noticed it was NOT a 32 SN, and also that it was clearly a factory stamping. I made a note of the number, and later looked it up. The SN on this frame was for a 41, and the fabricator had obviously and carefully grafted it into that repro, street-rod 32 frame. Though not exactly related, my point is that somewhere along here is a line, if crossed, leans towards fraud. Point, be careful. In my state, I'm pretty sure that ANY re-stamp is illegal. Not sure about that, but worth looking up if one is tempted. Just opinion... I'm aware of, and have first-hand knowledge of, one example where the person with a 32 (not the example above) had the car impounded by the state, and as far as I'm aware, I believe it was 'bye-bye-car'. I happened to be the party with the correct, original 32, which happened to have a serial number that duplicated the number the other person had been using. Actually, I'm not sure of the final outcome, as I was friends with the DMV Manager that caught this, and a deal could have been made with the other party for him to bring his car into compliance. My DMV Manager-friend suggested that a deal was possible. Last edited by bobH; 05-30-2016 at 09:46 PM.

05-30-2016, 10:42 PM	#24
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,577	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? slightly OT, but i have a 34 canadian frame which they used larger stamps, like maybe 7/16, on most of the numbers, but one or two(i forget) are the same size as the trans numbers, 3/8 or so. i sanded down to clean metal and cant see any sign of tampering, i wonder did the guy on the line that day drop his big punch and use the little one until lunch break!!! i havnt applied for title yet, but i bet they wont like it

05-31-2016, 11:37 AM	#26
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I might be wrong, but it was my understanding that it was illegal to tamper with vehicle ID numbers in any way, including adding additional number locations.

06-01-2016, 12:55 PM	#30
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,033	Re: Good techniques for restamping frame? Since I don't have the whole picture I am going to throw something into the mix. The number on the frame should be visible by lifting the hood. What is wrong with that location? A knowledgeable DMV inspector (if they exist) would look in that location and be suspicious if the number is in a different location. Charlie Stephens