Five main bearing 'A' engines?

[PeteVS]

What ever happened with the redesigned 'A' engine with the five main bearing design? I remember reading about it a few years ago, but I'm not on this part of the forums that much.

[petew]

Terry Burtz is still working on it. He has cast a number of blocks and continues to work at getting good castings. He sends out an email every month or so outlining his progress.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

http://modelaengine.com/

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[PeteVS]

Thanks gentlemen! I checked out the website and it appears as I remember it from when I last saw it. Could someone tell me how close he is to getting good castings?

Ooops! I just checked my email and there's one from Terry! Fine bunch of people here!!

[Ford1931]

I hope he gets this engine done and can sell them at an affordable cost. I am a little puzzled at the difficulty in getting good block castings. Maybe a look back at old technolgy would be in order, after all Ford was able to make a bunch of these.

[John LaVoy]

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The last I spoke with Terry (a few weeks ago) he was having some of the molds modified. When that was complete he was planning on spending a couple of days living in Lodi and working with the foundry on the pouring process. He feels he is very close to having blocks ready to machine.

[DaveB]

I also talked with Terry and he will be conducting a seminar for our Central California Regional Group in April. I already have over 140 registrations with limited spaces. One tour to the Giant Redwood trees is already full with 80 cars. Too much snow could be a problem on this tour.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by Ford1931

I hope he gets this engine done and can sell them at an affordable cost. I am a little puzzled at the difficulty in getting good block castings. Maybe a look back at old technolgy would be in order, after all Ford was able to make a bunch of these.

You mean when skilled labor and materials were cheap ?


I am constantly perplexed that while we live in an age of tremendous technological achievement, it seems to be so difficult to make "primitive" parts that fit and work like the originals...

To be fair to Terry's project, he is really breaking a lot of new ground with his engine.... trying to fit five main-bearings into a "shell" the same saize and appearance of the original A engine, AND keep the finished product around the same cost as a quality rebuild on an original Ford engine has got to be a tall order !

I, for one, am grateful that Terry is undertaking this daunting task, and wish him all the success in the world !

SC Frank

[59mgaguy]

I'm new to this forum and came across this five main question. I can understand the need for a reproduced Model A block but I get a giggle out of the 5 mains. I take it that you guys haven't been able to get the correct babbit. I've seen over the years engine shops have tried turning down the mains to put in bearing inserts only to weaken and have the crankshaft break. So it's now trying to make a five main to correct the problem. Not a bad idea but cost is going to be out of this world.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by 59mgaguy

I'm new to this forum and came across this five main question. I can understand the need for a reproduced Model A block but I get a giggle out of the 5 mains. I take it that you guys haven't been able to get the correct babbit. I've seen over the years engine shops have tried turning down the mains to put in bearing inserts only to weaken and have the crankshaft break. So it's now trying to make a five main to correct the problem. Not a bad idea but cost is going to be out of this world.

Wow, are you out of the loop! Welcome to Fordbarn!

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by 59mgaguy

I'm new to this forum and came across this five main question. I can understand the need for a reproduced Model A block but I get a giggle out of the 5 mains. I take it that you guys haven't been able to get the correct babbit. I've seen over the years engine shops have tried turning down the mains to put in bearing inserts only to weaken and have the crankshaft break. So it's now trying to make a five main to correct the problem. Not a bad idea but cost is going to be out of this world.

Hey ...welcome to the Barn! Mabe you can give us a bit of an introductory statement/history of your Model A/B involvement. There's no way knowing (except from your FIRST post) , what you background/knowledge is relative to this subject. But, inserted mains/rods have been installed very successfully for years in Model A/B engines. Mr. Burtz is the only person that I know of that is making history with his creation...for OUR benefit, and hopefully his also. Additionally, there seems to be an adequate number of A/B blocks around and talented babbitters. So , we have a choice of babbit, i.e.- original poured or insert...choice is good,eh! The making of a FIVE main is not to 'correct' anything so much as to make a more bullet proof big HP engine (my choice) for the long run.

[hardtimes]

Hey MikeK,
Ha, ha! I used the exact same phrase, i.e.- out of the loop,,lol...then reconsidered and rewrote. Guess being PC is even getting to me . LOL

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Ford1931

I hope he gets this engine done and can sell them at an affordable cost. I am a little puzzled at the difficulty in getting good block castings. Maybe a look back at old technolgy would be in order, after all Ford was able to make a bunch of these.

Yo, Ford1931, ridicule of Terry Burtz is Not in order. He's doing this WITHOUT multi-million $$$ backing, and is striving for a REALLY good product. Do a search on progress & pics of castings, etc, & you will be impressed! Bill W.

[Model A Man]

I for one have a lot of respect for Terry, and all others that can make parts. When I think what must be involved in making this motor, it makes my head hurt. I can hardly wait till the motors are done. I'm like a little kid waiting for Christmas.

[Ford1931]

I have followed this engine for a while and hope Terry is able to get it into production. I will be one of the first in line to buy one.

[59mgaguy]

Yes I have been out of the loop for a while. I started restoring A's in 1965. About 8 years ago I got hooked into the MGs. I'm not a big fan of inserts the same with not keeping the A as it should be. (Overdrives, radios, 16 inch tires, rat rods and chrome) Guess I am old school. As for the remarks on talented babbitters, you have to remember that the correct babbit has been off the market for years. Most babbit used now a days by these engine builders are marine babbit with extra lead thrown in. That's why some of these newly rebuilt engines are coming back pounding. Maybe this has changed in the pasted couple of years but I doubt it. I knew of only one man with the correct babbit. He's 89 retired and back in the 50's when they stopped selling the babbit he was lucky enough to have bought out his brother in-law's company's remaining stock.
Before moving out of the area 8 years ago I was smart enough to have Ray pour the babbit for an extra engine I was rebuilding that I want to keep for a spare. After that he only poured for his personal cars he was restoring.

On your remark "bullet proof big HP engine (my choice) for the long run." I remember at Synder's Antique Auto in Ohio it had at one time displayed a Model A engine that did over 100 mph in the quarter mile. The old man has since pasted away but if you call them. His son Tom could tell you more about it and the year it ran.

[John LaVoy]

Just to give some insight on Terry. He is, or was, an engineer in the aerospace industry. He has owned and restored Model As all of his life. When he retired he went to work on the design of a modern engine that had the outward appearance of a stock Model A. This was not for production, just something to keep his mind busy after retirement. After working on it for awhile he decided to see if it could actually be build for a reasonable cost. Because this is beind done as a labor of love and not a money making project the engines will be very affordable, especially if you compare them to the Donovan engines. Terry isn't charging the project for his engineering or time spent making the molds etc. He does all that out of pocket and travels back and forth to the foundry to examine castings and talk to the production people.

I know people are anxious to get an engine from him, but he is not going to release anything until he has worked all the bugs out of the process. I have known Terry for 40 years and know that he, if anyone, can bring this engine to the hobby. But I also know that he won't rush it, he feels very firm about it being engineer driven not cost driven. So when it does come out he feels very confident that it will hold up for the next 80 years of Model A driving!

But I'm right there in line to get mine, so come on Terrry get this project moving! LOL

I have one of the more recent castings in my garage and have posted pictures so you can see the process that has been made.

[TinCup]

Alright Mr. LaVoy you know how much my group of wrench turners in my group would love to get their hands on one of these castings????? They would make a great club demonstration and build interest. Any chance to get one shipped in for a demonstration. We would pay all shipping.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by 59mgaguy

. . . Most babbit used now a days by these engine builders are marine babbit with extra lead thrown in. That's why some of these newly rebuilt engines are coming back pounding. Maybe this has changed in the pasted couple of years but I doubt it. . .

Yes, you're definitely out of the loop on babbitt also! NONE of the guys doing engines and rods are using any Lead based alloys. To get the complete story look at this link on Vince's website: LINK

There are several extremely lenghty threads concerning this here on Fordbarn. I invite you to familiarize yourself with the search function, accessable from the black bar in the header above. Read and learn.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by John LaVoy

Just to give some insight on Terry. He is, or was, an engineer in the aerospace industry. He has owned and restored Model As all of his life. When he retired he went to work on the design of a modern engine that had the outward appearance of a stock Model A. This was not for production, just something to keep his mind busy after retirement. After working on it for awhile he decided to see if it could actually be build for a reasonable cost. Because this is beind done as a labor of love and not a money making project the engines will be very affordable, especially if you compare them to the Donovan engines. Terry isn't charging the project for his engineering or time spent making the molds etc. He does all that out of pocket and travels back and forth to the foundry to examine castings and talk to the production people.

I know people are anxious to get an engine from him, but he is not going to release anything until he has worked all the bugs out of the process. I have known Terry for 40 years and know that he, if anyone, can bring this engine to the hobby. But I also know that he won't rush it, he feels very firm about it being engineer driven not cost driven. So when it does come out he feels very confident that it will hold up for the next 80 years of Model A driving!

But I'm right there in line to get mine, so come on Terrry get this project moving! LOL

I have one of the more recent castings in my garage and have posted pictures so you can see the process that has been made.

Hey John,
Thanks for this reminder! IMO, even if Terry doubled the figure that he originally calculated/expressed...re cost of his creation...and I'm still around to purchase some...I'm in ! As for Terrys character/dedication towards completing this diffucult/expensive project...he wouldn't talk/accept others investment $ ! Just think of another item/project that has/will positively impact/affect our hobby, in our time, as greatly as the 'Burtz Model A Engine'.....think: Mitchel Overdrive (others ?)!