The Ford Barn

bbrust · 06-12-2015, 05:38 AM

I'm helping a friend rewire portions of his 39 Deluxe Sedan. He bought a NOS 91A-14401 harness but the diagram was not included. Does anyone have a copy of the harness diagram that they could post or PM me? His old harness was a combination of frayed original and after market jungle of wires and twist connectors and isn't much help. I have a copy of the attached diagrams but I'm looking for a diagram specific to the dash harness.
Thanks, Bob

Kurt in NJ · 06-12-2015, 08:27 AM

Have you tried looking in the owners reference book ---the owners manual that came with the car---I have a 1940 one that has detailed picture, color codes and pictures showing the wiring to the back of the insturment panel ---and the rest of the car

bbrust · 06-12-2015, 08:46 AM

Thanks. I'll see if he has an owners reference manual.

JSeery · 06-12-2015, 09:03 AM

The diagrams you posted are a mixture of Mercury and Ford. Not sure there was much difference (if any) but I would use the correct diagram for the car. This is the 39 deluxe diagram and there are differences.

Kahuna · 06-12-2015, 11:37 AM

Bbrust
What Jseery has shown is about the best there is.
The differences between the Deluxe & Standard car are minute.
His diagram will work just fine

bbrust · 06-12-2015, 03:49 PM

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Thanks all for the help. I have the diagram that JSerry added but was hoping that someone had the diagram that I assume comes with the 91A-14401 harness. (Didn't come in our NOS harness package). We also bought a 91A-14405 harness and it came with a nice diagram that made installation quick and easy.

The car is a 39 Deluxe so after some review, it looks like we needed the 91A-14401D harness. Some of the wires from the old harness don't match the new harness. There appears to be 3 dash harness for 1939. The 91A-14401 harness states that it for a 39 Standard with a cut-out; the 91A-1440C harness states that it's for a 39 Standard with the Voltage Regulator on the firewall and the 91A-14401D is for the 39 Deluxe. Does the cut-out replace the Voltage Regulator? If so, that could be our problem. Thanks, Bob

Kahuna · 06-12-2015, 04:30 PM

Bbrust
The cutout was replaced by the regulator. Some 39 standards came with a cutout and later the regulator was used. A 39 Deluxe would have had a regulator.
This help?

JSeery · 06-12-2015, 04:47 PM

Not sure if this helps any, but I had a little spare time this afternoon.

bbrust · 06-12-2015, 05:22 PM

Kahuna, Thank you. That's probably our problem. We must have the harness for a cutout but since the car has a Voltage Regulator, the harness doesn't match. Where is the cutout mounted on the Standard?

JSeery, Thank you for the diagram. First time I've seen that and it will definitely help. Bob

JSeery · 06-12-2015, 05:24 PM

JSeery, Thank you for the diagram. First time I've seen that and it will definitely help. Bob[/QUOTE]

It's the first time you (or anyone) has seen it because I just built it about an hour ago! LOL

The cut-out is mounted on top of the generator. Look at the first diagram you posted, the main part of the diagram has the cut-out, the insert shows the regulator. The cut-out is the lump on the top center of the generator line drawing and has a wire going to the side of it.

bbrust · 06-12-2015, 07:53 PM

Looks very professional. Thanks again, Bob

bbrust · 06-13-2015, 10:37 AM

Our 39 Deluxe has a Voltage Regulator and the old harness had a double wire to the BAT terminal, a single wire to the FLD terminal and a single wire to the ARM terminal. It looks like the cutout wiring had a YB wire from the ign sw??? and another wire to the solenoid. Assuming that we have the Cutout harness, is there a way use this harness to connect wires to the Voltage Regulator? Thanks again, Bob

JSeery · 06-13-2015, 05:04 PM

The Yellow/Black wire that went to the cut-out will connect to the Generator ARM post. The other end of this wire needs to connect to the ARM tab on the voltage regulator. You might be able to cut the wire and get one end (the Generator end) to connect to the regulator and then connect the other cut end to the BAT tab. If the wire is too short or you want to use the correct color (Yellow) then remove the existing cut end of the Yellow/Black wire from the fuse block and run a new wire (Yellow) from the fuse block to the BAT tab on the voltage regulator. You will have to add a new wire (Black) from the FLD post on the generator to the FLD tab on the voltage regulator. Need to ensure that the generator is grounded to the engine and the engine is grounded back to the battery as these generator connections do not have a dedicated ground wire.

bbrust · 06-13-2015, 05:31 PM

Thank you very much JSeery. That should be all we need (until the next problem). You've been a great help. Bob

Kahuna · 06-14-2015, 12:33 AM

If you want to get more of the correct wire for your changes, contact Brillman.com with your needs

ford38v8 · 06-14-2015, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

Not sure if this helps any, but I had a little spare time this afternoon.

Now that is something! I've never seen anyone go to those lengths to create a diagram! Good on ya!

ford38v8 · 06-14-2015, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

The Yellow/Black wire that went to the cut-out will connect to the Generator ARM post. The other end of this wire needs to connect to the ARM tab on the voltage regulator. You might be able to cut the wire and get one end (the Generator end) to connect to the regulator and then connect the other cut end to the BAT tab. If the wire is too short or you want to use the correct color (Yellow) then remove the existing cut end of the Yellow/Black wire from the fuse block and run a new wire (Yellow) from the fuse block to the BAT tab on the voltage regulator. You will have to add a new wire (Black) from the FLD post on the generator to the FLD tab on the voltage regulator. Need to ensure that the generator is grounded to the engine and the engine is grounded back to the battery as these generator connections do not have a dedicated ground wire.

It's been quite a while now since I wired my '38 Deluxe, but to my recollection, the '38 harness was used as is for a cut-out, and a short modifier harness was supplied with the regulator if a radio was to be installed at the dealership. This is the combo harness I used. The '39 Standard harness is likely the same harness as used in the '38, as the same option would apply. To be Concourse correct, then, the 39 Deluxe harness is different in that it is designed for use only with a regulator. I know this has been said before, but sometimes a different wording can be helpful if any puzzlement remained.

swoopNZ · 06-14-2015, 04:53 AM

'38 standards had an accessory electric clock available.
'39 standards had nothing.
From memory the '38 wiring harnesses exited the firewall at the center,
'39's went out on the LH side.

ford38v8 · 06-14-2015, 09:30 AM

Swoop, Correct for the Deluxe, but the '39 Standard had the same firewall with center harness grommet as the 38 Deluxe. Looking back at the first post diagram, it does confirm the same harness 38 and 39 Standard.

Kahuna · 06-14-2015, 11:52 AM

SwoopNZ is correct
Harness on a Standard car exits thru the left side (driver) firewall, not center.

06-12-2015, 08:27 AM	#2
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Have you tried looking in the owners reference book ---the owners manual that came with the car---I have a 1940 one that has detailed picture, color codes and pictures showing the wiring to the back of the insturment panel ---and the rest of the car

06-12-2015, 08:46 AM	#3
bbrust Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greencastle, PA Posts: 227	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Thanks. I'll see if he has an owners reference manual.

06-12-2015, 11:37 AM	#5
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Bbrust What Jseery has shown is about the best there is. The differences between the Deluxe & Standard car are minute. His diagram will work just fine

06-12-2015, 03:49 PM	#6
bbrust Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greencastle, PA Posts: 227	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks all for the help. I have the diagram that JSerry added but was hoping that someone had the diagram that I assume comes with the 91A-14401 harness. (Didn't come in our NOS harness package). We also bought a 91A-14405 harness and it came with a nice diagram that made installation quick and easy. The car is a 39 Deluxe so after some review, it looks like we needed the 91A-14401D harness. Some of the wires from the old harness don't match the new harness. There appears to be 3 dash harness for 1939. The 91A-14401 harness states that it for a 39 Standard with a cut-out; the 91A-1440C harness states that it's for a 39 Standard with the Voltage Regulator on the firewall and the 91A-14401D is for the 39 Deluxe. Does the cut-out replace the Voltage Regulator? If so, that could be our problem. Thanks, Bob

06-12-2015, 04:30 PM	#7
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Bbrust The cutout was replaced by the regulator. Some 39 standards came with a cutout and later the regulator was used. A 39 Deluxe would have had a regulator. This help?

06-12-2015, 05:22 PM	#9
bbrust Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greencastle, PA Posts: 227	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Kahuna, Thank you. That's probably our problem. We must have the harness for a cutout but since the car has a Voltage Regulator, the harness doesn't match. Where is the cutout mounted on the Standard? JSeery, Thank you for the diagram. First time I've seen that and it will definitely help. Bob

06-12-2015, 05:24 PM	#10
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram JSeery, Thank you for the diagram. First time I've seen that and it will definitely help. Bob[/QUOTE] It's the first time you (or anyone) has seen it because I just built it about an hour ago! LOL The cut-out is mounted on top of the generator. Look at the first diagram you posted, the main part of the diagram has the cut-out, the insert shows the regulator. The cut-out is the lump on the top center of the generator line drawing and has a wire going to the side of it. Last edited by JSeery; 06-12-2015 at 05:31 PM.

06-12-2015, 07:53 PM	#11
bbrust Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greencastle, PA Posts: 227	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Looks very professional. Thanks again, Bob

06-13-2015, 10:37 AM	#12
bbrust Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greencastle, PA Posts: 227	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Our 39 Deluxe has a Voltage Regulator and the old harness had a double wire to the BAT terminal, a single wire to the FLD terminal and a single wire to the ARM terminal. It looks like the cutout wiring had a YB wire from the ign sw??? and another wire to the solenoid. Assuming that we have the Cutout harness, is there a way use this harness to connect wires to the Voltage Regulator? Thanks again, Bob

06-13-2015, 05:04 PM	#13
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram The Yellow/Black wire that went to the cut-out will connect to the Generator ARM post. The other end of this wire needs to connect to the ARM tab on the voltage regulator. You might be able to cut the wire and get one end (the Generator end) to connect to the regulator and then connect the other cut end to the BAT tab. If the wire is too short or you want to use the correct color (Yellow) then remove the existing cut end of the Yellow/Black wire from the fuse block and run a new wire (Yellow) from the fuse block to the BAT tab on the voltage regulator. You will have to add a new wire (Black) from the FLD post on the generator to the FLD tab on the voltage regulator. Need to ensure that the generator is grounded to the engine and the engine is grounded back to the battery as these generator connections do not have a dedicated ground wire.

06-13-2015, 05:31 PM	#14
bbrust Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greencastle, PA Posts: 227	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Thank you very much JSeery. That should be all we need (until the next problem). You've been a great help. Bob

06-14-2015, 12:33 AM	#15
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram If you want to get more of the correct wire for your changes, contact Brillman.com with your needs

06-14-2015, 04:53 AM	#18
swoopNZ MEMBER EMERITUS Join Date: May 2010 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,380	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram '38 standards had an accessory electric clock available. '39 standards had nothing. From memory the '38 wiring harnesses exited the firewall at the center, '39's went out on the LH side.

06-14-2015, 09:30 AM	#19
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,646	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram Swoop, Correct for the Deluxe, but the '39 Standard had the same firewall with center harness grommet as the 38 Deluxe. Looking back at the first post diagram, it does confirm the same harness 38 and 39 Standard. __________________ Alan

06-14-2015, 11:52 AM	#20
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: 1939 Dash Harness Diagram SwoopNZ is correct Harness on a Standard car exits thru the left side (driver) firewall, not center.