A-V8 flathead mounts

[papanomad]

if you are going to buy everything already made, you don't need Tardels book. more satisfaction if you build it yourself. mock it up and measure twice and cut once!

[jimvette59]

As everybody said set the rear and go from there. You can look at Tardels book once in awhile for ideas but DIY.

[Ralph Moore]

I think I did the measure once and cut twice method.
As I mentioned I had to move the front mounts back 5/8".
This meant the K member had to be moved back 5/8", and the torque tube had to be shortened 5/8" as well. This was the second time I cut the torque tube.
Oh well, live and learn right?
The only good thing was I had not yet cut the inner drive shaft , so I only cut that once.

d

[cuzncletus]

Sorry, Pooch. I read it right but I wrote it wrong. I did measure from the center line of the radiator mounting holes back three inches, then mocked up my motor mounts with the edge of the mount on the 3" line. So I'm back the 4 1/12" you suggested.

Measuring from the leading edge of my 59a distributor to the leading edge of the water pump/engine mount, using a plumb line this comes out to about 4". If I set the 59a as far back as possible (the mount is slotted, too) on the mounts at 4 1/2" back, that puts the distributor 1/2" back from the center line of the radiator mounting holes. In my mind that puts the distributor squarely in the radiator.

Using the 8BA in my 39, I measured from the 49-53 truck pumps to the forward edge of the pulley which coincides with the forward edge of the pumps. That's about 3.5 inches, give or take an 1/8th. That's still close to where I think the radiator would be, if not into it.

Some of this may be cured with different water pumps. There are enough guys out there with a lot of expertise that can chime in on this. The photos in the Tardel book show the mounts about where mine would come out so probably I'm wrong. But I'm not going any further with this until I can at least get a cowl mounted and a block mocked in place.

[Bader]

Mine has 8ba,I'm 5" c to c,works perfect,no cutting the firewall,but did use an electric fan.

[Mart]

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Beware of a typo in Mike's book. He states the hole in the engine mount as 1-1/2". He meant to say 1-1/4". He is aware of the blooper.

I'd strongly recommend having all parts to hand and thoroughly mocked up before welding anything.

Mart.

[Fred A]

Sure this is old news to those who have compormised their build, charmed by the false breauty of that F-1 crossmember in their A frame. Mocked up the thing and found that my first choice was that the rear of the trans, thereby the engine was way tall and complicated the floor, plus the interference with the '30 firewall was even worse. Jacking up the front of the engine to match the lofty rear mounting put the engine centerline way above that of the Ford frame design. The pedals fit with very minor mod. This would not be the case if the crossmember is lowered to a better height nor would it be as pretty. So many have chosen to ignore this problem and they can be spotted at events by those that know the ackward signs. A goofy and poor design that is cheap and easy is hard to resist. Good Luck: Fred A

[skidmarks]

Originally Posted by Fred A

Sure this is old news to those who have compormised their build, charmed by the false breauty of that F-1 crossmember in their A frame. Mocked up the thing and found that my first choice was that the rear of the trans, thereby the engine was way tall and complicated the floor, plus the interference with the '30 firewall was even worse. Jacking up the front of the engine to match the lofty rear mounting put the engine centerline way above that of the Ford frame design. The pedals fit with very minor mod. This would not be the case if the crossmember is lowered to a better height nor would it be as pretty. So many have chosen to ignore this problem and they can be spotted at events by those that know the ackward signs. A goofy and poor design that is cheap and easy is hard to resist. Good Luck: Fred A

Would like to see some pictures of what your issue was.

[bobH]

This thread is really interesting to me. I'm wondering where I went wrong.
I helped a fellow put a 59A in a 29 roadster, by removing the A engine and trans, and using a 39 trans against the A rear end, left in place just as we found it. Home-made supports for the rear of the 39 trans. The engine ended up where it worked out to be.
I remember some stuff being close, but everything cleared. We didn't modify the firewall, and we modified the oil-fill tube to clear. The left header was modified to fit, almost what you might call a 'custom' header.
This thread makes me think we could not have done it the way we did. Where did we go wrong? If there is a next time, what should we do different?
I know my memory sometimes is foggy. Am I full of it, this time?

[rotorwrench]

One of the things folks don't think about is the structural aspect of the installation and the higher power rating that it has. The A frame is very flexible. Not as bad as a model T but bad enough and a lot of A frames are crusty where the old rear engine mounts were and that can cause frame failures. A busted frame can get you killed. The 32 K-member was the old favorite because it has the legs attaching in a location where it strengthens that part of the frame and it gives you pedals to boot. The model A rear axle is missing the extra pinion bearing that the later axles have so it can't take as much torque.

Now if someone wants to just put a V8 in there with minimal alteration and baby it around then they would likely be OK as long as they at least partially boxed the frame in the weak points. I figure if you are going to build it, you might as well beef it up a bit for safety sake.

[Fred A]

Originally Posted by skidmarks

Would like to see some pictures of what your issue was.

That's an idea Skid... A couple of sucessful examples of an F-1 crossmember supporting an early Ford trans without jacking the trans' ass end up to require butchering the center crossmember and likely the floor. If the crossmember is lowered to where that's not a problem the pedals no longer work in the intended place opening a big bit of ugly like a massive hernia hanging under the frame. Takes a lot of fender to hide that one. Sure clever re-engineering can steer around all these issues, but that can bring problems not worth fixing. The alls ya gotta do pitch about things F-1 is only partly true.


In the meantime my best A chassis is going Cragar/B with an engine made right by Jay Steele. Not a butcher shop special, looking like its made by Ford engineers.

Good Luck: Fred A

[skidmarks]

Originally Posted by Fred A

That's an idea Skid... A couple of sucessful examples of an F-1 crossmember supporting an early Ford trans without jacking the trans' ass end up to require butchering the center crossmember and likely the floor. If the crossmember is lowered to where that's not a problem the pedals no longer work in the intended place opening a big bit of ugly like a massive hernia hanging under the frame. Takes a lot of fender to hide that one. Sure clever re-engineering can steer around all these issues, but that can bring problems not worth fixing. The alls ya gotta do pitch about things F-1 is only partly true.


In the meantime my best A chassis is going Cragar/B with an engine made right by Jay Steele. Not a butcher shop special, looking like its made by Ford engineers.

Good Luck: Fred A

.
I have not had the issues you speak of with the ones I have built. It didnt require any massive re-engineering or butchershop work. The floor was flat like stock and had a flat plate over the top of the 39 transmission. Top of the F1 crossmember even with the top of the model A frame rails. The F1 you can pull the transmission without pulling the motor unlike a K member. .


Did you keep the stock model A center crossmember in place or remove it?

[Fred A]

Nearly all of the F-1 jobs that I see have the top of the crossmember just below the top of the A rails. Were you able to get those good results by doing just that or were you inclined to lower the assembly just a bit and still mount the trans without the need to hog out the center cross to clear the torque tube? I still have a fresh crossmember and pedal assembly that may be used to mount an 8 when the banger project is under control. You may have it Skidmark. The potential issues can be observed in a few minutes when mocking up a collection of components which do not even need to be the actual candidates for the chassis. Good Luck: Fred A