Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-27-2013, 04:42 PM   #1
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Commiefornia (not for long)
Posts: 1,675
Default Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

I just ruined another set of sleeves trying to re-do my original distributor. Think this is a good time to request professional assistance.

Any shop that will re-do the sleeves and install the shaft with a new pin the correct way for me? Reasonably priced, please.
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 04:48 PM   #2
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

What method are you using to install these bushings? No real need to have someone else install them, maybe a rethink of your installation method may be a better route. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-27-2013, 04:55 PM   #3
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

I've always used an old one piece distributor shaft as a driver to remove and install the bushings. I had to turn the ridge diameter down a hair so it would slip through the distributor casting inside diameter. Most of the new shafts and bushings have come from Bratton's and fit well.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 05:57 PM   #4
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Commiefornia (not for long)
Posts: 1,675
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Part of being a capable engineer is knowing when to seek assistance from someone with better skills than yourself. In this case, mechanical skills.

I can get the bushings in, no problem. The problem comes when installing the shaft. You have to have the thin washer on top and either another thin washer or the fiber one on the bottom, then the sleeve with a pin through it to hold it to the shaft.

Well, even with NO washer on the bottom this time, I drove the pin into the sleeve and shaft, and the whole thing binds now when turning the shaft. In whacking it to get it to all line up, I also managed to make the bushings less tight to the shaft as well.

Rather than destroy an original distributor housing, I am seeking help, please. I know when to quit, and that time is now. I am not going to attempt this again myself, I will only be sending this to someone who will do it correctly for money. Not negotiable as I know my limitations!

So, back to the original question, please.... Is there a shop that will re-do the (now possibly ruined) sleeves and install the shaft with a new pin the correct way for me? Reasonably priced, please.
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 06:16 PM   #5
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Bert's and afew others used to offer these with the bushings and shaft fit. I do not know if any of them offer them like that now. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 07:33 PM   #6
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
There's got to be quite a few in your state that can help.
BTW, I never use a washer of any kind on top of the coupling sleeve.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:56 PM   #7
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,487
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Well, lets be honest in that even if Paul gets the new bushings installed himself, his next task is to fit the bushings to the shaft ...and to make sure the two bushings are aligned parallel so the shaft will turn freely.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 12:01 AM   #8
Ca. Kid
Member
 
Ca. Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Andreas CA.
Posts: 78
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Paul, have you tried Willie Baechler Machine in San Andreas? 209-754-4646
Ca. Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 10:37 AM   #9
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Commiefornia (not for long)
Posts: 1,675
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Ca. Kid- Good tip. Thanks!

Brent- Yes, exactly. What I possess in electronic ability, I lack in mechanical. Some guys with great mechanical ability take it for granted and cannot comprehend someone else without it. Same way I am dumbfounded at people's lack of electrical (and electronic) ability. I can design a circuit and build an electronic device (like a radio, TV, etc.) from scratch, but cannot make a distributor for a Model A new again. We all have different skill sets. Mechanics happens to be my kryptonite!
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 11:45 AM   #10
frank55a
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 928
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

P.S. Not sure what you mean by "In whacking it to get it to all line up, I also managed to make the bushings less tight to the shaft as well." I have rebuilt many distributers over the years. First rule in rebuilding any mechanical items 'be gentle, do not get in a rush, and if it does not fit do not use a bigger hammer.'

I do not have any fancy tools or presses. Champher the end of the bushing you are putting into the housing. I do not drive the bushings in - I simply use my vise to press them in. (NOTE: If you do not have a vise or were a vise will not work, I have found I piece of threaded stock with a couple of flat washers and a nut on each end works very well also to press in bushings). Once the bushings are in, there may be a slight bur that needs to be removed, a small jewlers file works well. The bushings should be reamed to .500" (this will ensure alignment of the bushings). Most dealers now supply a roll pin, most pins should not need to be "wacked in" they can also be simply be presed in. If the pin needs to be peened after it is installed besure to back up the sleeve & shaft so it will not get bent. GOOD LUCK
frank55a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 11:54 AM   #11
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,487
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by P.S. View Post
Ca. Kid- Good tip. Thanks!

Brent- Yes, exactly. What I possess in electronic ability, I lack in mechanical. Some guys with great mechanical ability take it for granted and cannot comprehend someone else without it. Same way I am dumbfounded at people's lack of electrical (and electronic) ability. I can design a circuit and build an electronic device (like a radio, TV, etc.) from scratch, but cannot make a distributor for a Model A new again. We all have different skill sets. Mechanics happens to be my kryptonite!
My personal opinion is to see if anyone has a unit already rebuilt, --or at least has the machine work done where you can do the remaining restoration on it. Just use their dist. core as the starting point.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 12:15 PM   #12
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Commiefornia (not for long)
Posts: 1,675
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Thanks for the input, Frank. I had to "whack" it with a deadblow hammer to get the pin into the bottom sleeve that holds the shaft in. I had the other side of the sleeve against the workbench. After putting it all together, when turning the shaft, there are now two points where it binds, and it also can be wiggled back and forth (laterally). I just cannot seem to figure out a way to make this all work without destroying it in the process. This last time, I took almost 4 weeks working on it nearly every night after work for an hour or two, trying to be extra careful, etc. Taking time isn;t the issue. My mechanical stupidity is the issue.

Brent- The key here was that I was trying to rebuild the distributor that came with the car. The car is running now with the rebuilt one I got from Bratton's. It's not like the car is dead now waiting for me to finish this or anything. This will probably become the spare and will probably leave the one in there that it's running on now.

The problem with sending this out as a "core" for another rebuilt one is that the one that came with the car will now be gone. Yes, I am aware that there is almost no possibility that this is the one that actually came from the factory with this car, it's just the one that was in the car when it came to me. But, there's that slim chance that it could be the one that came on the car from the factory, and that alone is enough to make me want to keep it.
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #13
Purdy Swoft
Senior Member
 
Purdy Swoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8,099
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

I agree with frank55a On bushing and sleeve installation. I also think that there is a good chance that the shaft is either bent or a poor replacement part . I have had this same problem. A lot of the replacement upper distributor shafts that I have tried to use over the years were just bad from the start. The shafts probably bend easily. There is a good chance that the shaft got bent when the sleeve pin was driven in. you could use a roll pin and grind a taper on the leading edge to make the pin easier to start and then use a vise like Frank says to gently push the pin in place. I would try Berts for a new upper shaft and explain the problem and see what Steve or Phil thought.
Purdy Swoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 03:02 PM   #14
Terry, NJ
Senior Member
 
Terry, NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks Co, Pa
Posts: 3,740
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Paul, No where in your discription do I se any reference to reaming the bushings after pressing them into the distributor housing. I can't tell if you skipped this step or not. I suspect you did.
1) The force that you indicate was necessary to get the shaft into the housing.
2) The fact that you've ruined the new bushings and probably bent the shaft.
As someone else said, the bushings must be reamed after pressing the in.
This is done with a hand, adjustable, expansion reamer, turned with a tap wrench. The purpose of the reaming is to insure proper alignment of the bores to one another. The shaft should go into the bores with no more than a light tap from a plastic or Bronze hammer. It shouldn't fall in either. It should turn with minimum resistance. If it takes more than a light force, mike the reamer and make very slight adjustments to the reamer and take another cut. The watchword is "gentle", easy does it!
Be patient, it takes a little while.
Terry



Quote:
Originally Posted by P.S. View Post
I just ruined another set of sleeves trying to re-do my original distributor. Think this is a good time to request professional assistance.

Any shop that will re-do the sleeves and install the shaft with a new pin the correct way for me? Reasonably priced, please.
Terry, NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 03:48 PM   #15
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

I think I encountered something simular with a shaft from Snyders several years ago. I now buy almost everything from Bert's so no longer have this problem. Chances are there are several suppliers for this part. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 04:27 PM   #16
Al 29Tudor
Senior Member
 
Al 29Tudor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Venice, FL
Posts: 648
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

P.S,
What is the diameter of the shaft? You should know that and ream to within .001.
Al
Al 29Tudor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 04:33 PM   #17
RonC
Senior Member
 
RonC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,868
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Ford specified .004 to .010 end play. You can file the top of the bottom sleeve to achieve this before you insert the pin. Ford only used only fiber washer on the top. My guess to prevent oil from reaching the points. No steel washers or any washers on the bottom were used.

I screw a tap into the bushing and then slowly press the tap out along with the two bushings into a large socket. I use an old shaft with the collar to press in the new bushings. I use my vise to do the pressing. Then I ream them to size. I wouldn't strike or shock the castings in any way as they can break.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 100_0612.jpg (54.6 KB, 39 views)
RonC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 04:44 PM   #18
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Commiefornia (not for long)
Posts: 1,675
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Thanks again for all the input, guys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry, NJ View Post
Paul, No where in your discription do I se any reference to reaming the bushings after pressing them into the distributor housing. I can't tell if you skipped this step or not. I suspect you did.
1) The force that you indicate was necessary to get the shaft into the housing.
2) The fact that you've ruined the new bushings and probably bent the shaft.
As someone else said, the bushings must be reamed after pressing the in.
This is done with a hand, adjustable, expansion reamer, turned with a tap wrench. The purpose of the reaming is to insure proper alignment of the bores to one another. The shaft should go into the bores with no more than a light tap from a plastic or Bronze hammer. It shouldn't fall in either. It should turn with minimum resistance. If it takes more than a light force, mike the reamer and make very slight adjustments to the reamer and take another cut. The watchword is "gentle", easy does it!
Be patient, it takes a little while.
Terry

Hi Terry, sorry for the confusion.

Yes, they were reamed first, and the shaft was a nice fit. The shaft is new, and it felt real nice in the new sleeves. The problem I have is getting the bottom on and the pin through it without ruining all the previous precise work. The pin seems way too tight on both sets of parts and the originals. By the time I press, or this last time, pound the pin in place, either I ruin the sleeves or the fit goes to heck and it binds. Each time I attempt this, I am wasting money, parts, and precious time.

I guess I just don't get it. Probably second nature to you guys, but this is proving very difficult for the ol' electronics engineer here.

I appreciate all your input and trying to help me. However, at this point, I have already made up my mind that I am NOT going to try this again myself. I am going to seek a professional to do this. Stand by...
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 05:21 PM   #19
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Commiefornia (not for long)
Posts: 1,675
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Just got off the phone with Willie Baechler machine shop. Will be taking it there. After buying another set of parts!

Thanks guys.
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 06:55 PM   #20
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 9,389
Default Re: Who can re-sleeve an original distributor?

Too late now but have you tried fitting the pin BEFORE assembling the parts?? Also it sounds like you reamed the bushings BEFORE installing in the housing?? Installing finish reamed bushings might be why you have the bind. JMO
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:20 AM.