The Ford Barn

The Badger · 06-22-2012, 04:56 AM

I have a 239 CID German made truck engine. Under the intake manifold the block is mark S99T and four digits blocked with stars. As it usually is on this type of Ford engine. But, someone has grinded out the old engine number and put on a new. So the S99T is false! I believe that the engine earliest is from 1942-43. At that time they started the production of the 239 CID in Cologne (Köln) says Thilo M. I have been in contact with him. Other engine details is:

Rear mounted distributor drive.
Thin sleeves installed in all cylinders.
The heads are marked 99T.
The water holes between 2 and 3 cylinders on each side are 3 big trapezoid ones.
The intake manifold mounting surface is flat.
In the cast, on top of the bellhousing is the letter H. Take a look at the picture!

Can someone explain what the H letter means?

There are no other letters or figures at the bellhousing.

Regards
Carl

Walt Dupont--Me. · 06-22-2012, 06:52 AM

Are you sure that rear mounted dist hole is'nt made for a governor insead of a dist. And maybe the dist runs off the front timing cover? Walt

The Badger · 06-22-2012, 07:15 AM

Hi Walt!

I don´t know what the rear hole in the block was used for. I guessed that it was for a distributor. But it can also be for a governor. The distributor that I found in the box beside the engine was of the model “eggshell/driver helmet”. So I believe you are right!
Regards
Carl

Bruce Lancaster · 06-22-2012, 09:39 AM

The later German Fords are I think 29's, 1942 designation, all early 239's would have the 99 in serial. The ones with the distributor in rear atop the oil pump had I think the normal drive up front just covered with a plate.
The G29 was used from 1942 until some time in the early 1950's with both distributor types. At some point heads and gaskets changed and engines had front radiator hoses...
I have a late manual on these. Most of them in wartime and after lived in 1940 pattern Ford big tucks.

Bruce Lancaster · 06-22-2012, 09:40 AM

Also I believe German never used the '37-9 type distributor, but kept the 1933-36 pattern on use...does yours have rubber plugs on each side giving access to adjustment screws on the points??

Ol' Ron · 06-22-2012, 09:48 AM

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In the late 70's or 80's, I understand the British used these engines with a rear mounted distributor in a personal carrier. Had a chance to buy one but thought it was one of the 337s because of the dist location, no picture.

bob miller · 06-22-2012, 10:57 AM

Yes it's a german engine , we have some of this engine in france . the hole is for a distributor ( bosch)

The Badger · 06-24-2012, 12:20 AM

Yes, Bruce, it has two holes for adjustment of the breaker point gap. I enclose a picture of the distributor.

Does anyone know what the letter H on the bellhousing mean?

aaron griffey · 06-24-2012, 02:29 AM

When I was in the Army in Germany in '56 to '59 we used German Ford trucks to haul laundry.
They were flat head V8's with the distributor behind the rt. cylinder head.
I had already owned a '33 a '40 and a '46 before I went there and was into the engines on all 3 and friends cars too so I was familiar with the Ford V8 enough to notice the rear drive distributor.

ventilo · 06-25-2012, 03:59 AM

I am in contact with Carl and must admit the flathead experts in our club have no clue what the "H" stands for and why the original serial number was re-stamped.

Possibly the "H" was just a casting pattern number and the engine was overhauled, re-sleeved and re-stamped at that time? Ford Germany used in-house workshops for engine remaufacturing but outsourced some work as well at the same time.

The post 1942 German flatheads did not use a govenor like the French, but could use a front mounted "diver's helmet" distributor or a more conventional rear monted Bosch dual points dizzy. Swapping the various flathead V8s between cars and trucks, early and late models, domestic and foreign (captured) vehicles was very popular during WW II and later.
There were even manuals and posters how to covert a German flathead for use in British and American Ford trucks. Lots of them were captured in Northern Africa, in Dunkerque and later in the Belgian Ardennes. One of our elderly Club members still remembers how he used to drive as a teenager with a friend's generator gas driven Ford truck in the late '40s into Belgian forests to collect American army leftovers and sell them to lokal scrapyards.

Thilo

Bruce Lancaster · 06-25-2012, 08:54 AM

Well, the H is probavbly not an engine type ID, as Ford germant from what I have seen essentially followed American numbering schemes with "G" added to designate German manufacture or design.
They made I believe both 99 and 29 models of the 239 during the war and after, and something of that sort would desigante the engine (like 59 on the only solidly marked USA early flathead). H may be a foundryname/ciry location of foundry...does anyone know where Ford G engines were cast and built? Quite possibly different from where the vehicles were put together.
On the progression of heads used with which block and that sort of thing I do have a G-Ford parts list somewhere from about 1943, but it is very heavy on replacement parts which were always the latest change that would fit, not what came originally.

ventilo · 06-25-2012, 09:20 AM

German flathead blocks were cast at the Cologne-Niehl plant in-house foundry, later switched over to "Eisenwerke Brühl" (see typical EB logo on the German blocks). Brühl is a Cologne suburb. EB is still doing business for Ford and other OEMs:
http://www.eb-bruehl.com/index.php?lang=en

Bruce Lancaster · 06-25-2012, 09:36 AM

H for Heer?

ventilo · 06-25-2012, 10:39 AM

I don't think so. "Heer" means army, Ford trucks were also used by the air forces "Luftwaffe" and marines. If it was a German army spec it would rather read "W" for "Wehrmacht.
But I also don't know what "H" stands for ....

Or is it "H" for "Holzgas" = generator gas? That would make more sense, as they were low compression engines.

06-22-2012, 06:52 AM	#2
Walt Dupont--Me. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gardiner Me. Posts: 4,200	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? Are you sure that rear mounted dist hole is'nt made for a governor insead of a dist. And maybe the dist runs off the front timing cover? Walt

06-22-2012, 07:15 AM	#3
The Badger Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southern Sweden Posts: 11	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? Hi Walt! I don´t know what the rear hole in the block was used for. I guessed that it was for a distributor. But it can also be for a governor. The distributor that I found in the box beside the engine was of the model “eggshell/driver helmet”. So I believe you are right! Regards Carl

06-22-2012, 09:39 AM	#4
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? The later German Fords are I think 29's, 1942 designation, all early 239's would have the 99 in serial. The ones with the distributor in rear atop the oil pump had I think the normal drive up front just covered with a plate. The G29 was used from 1942 until some time in the early 1950's with both distributor types. At some point heads and gaskets changed and engines had front radiator hoses... I have a late manual on these. Most of them in wartime and after lived in 1940 pattern Ford big tucks.

06-22-2012, 09:40 AM	#5
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? Also I believe German never used the '37-9 type distributor, but kept the 1933-36 pattern on use...does yours have rubber plugs on each side giving access to adjustment screws on the points??

06-22-2012, 09:48 AM	#6
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,862	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) In the late 70's or 80's, I understand the British used these engines with a rear mounted distributor in a personal carrier. Had a chance to buy one but thought it was one of the 337s because of the dist location, no picture.

06-22-2012, 10:57 AM	#7
bob miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: france Posts: 141	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? Yes it's a german engine , we have some of this engine in france . the hole is for a distributor ( bosch)

06-24-2012, 02:29 AM	#9
aaron griffey Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hayward, Ca. Posts: 93	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? When I was in the Army in Germany in '56 to '59 we used German Ford trucks to haul laundry. They were flat head V8's with the distributor behind the rt. cylinder head. I had already owned a '33 a '40 and a '46 before I went there and was into the engines on all 3 and friends cars too so I was familiar with the Ford V8 enough to notice the rear drive distributor.

06-25-2012, 03:59 AM	#10
ventilo Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cologne/Germany Posts: 74	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? I am in contact with Carl and must admit the flathead experts in our club have no clue what the "H" stands for and why the original serial number was re-stamped. Possibly the "H" was just a casting pattern number and the engine was overhauled, re-sleeved and re-stamped at that time? Ford Germany used in-house workshops for engine remaufacturing but outsourced some work as well at the same time. The post 1942 German flatheads did not use a govenor like the French, but could use a front mounted "diver's helmet" distributor or a more conventional rear monted Bosch dual points dizzy. Swapping the various flathead V8s between cars and trucks, early and late models, domestic and foreign (captured) vehicles was very popular during WW II and later. There were even manuals and posters how to covert a German flathead for use in British and American Ford trucks. Lots of them were captured in Northern Africa, in Dunkerque and later in the Belgian Ardennes. One of our elderly Club members still remembers how he used to drive as a teenager with a friend's generator gas driven Ford truck in the late '40s into Belgian forests to collect American army leftovers and sell them to lokal scrapyards. Thilo

06-25-2012, 08:54 AM	#11
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? Well, the H is probavbly not an engine type ID, as Ford germant from what I have seen essentially followed American numbering schemes with "G" added to designate German manufacture or design. They made I believe both 99 and 29 models of the 239 during the war and after, and something of that sort would desigante the engine (like 59 on the only solidly marked USA early flathead). H may be a foundryname/ciry location of foundry...does anyone know where Ford G engines were cast and built? Quite possibly different from where the vehicles were put together. On the progression of heads used with which block and that sort of thing I do have a G-Ford parts list somewhere from about 1943, but it is very heavy on replacement parts which were always the latest change that would fit, not what came originally.

06-25-2012, 09:20 AM	#12
ventilo Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cologne/Germany Posts: 74	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? German flathead blocks were cast at the Cologne-Niehl plant in-house foundry, later switched over to "Eisenwerke Brühl" (see typical EB logo on the German blocks). Brühl is a Cologne suburb. EB is still doing business for Ford and other OEMs: http://www.eb-bruehl.com/index.php?lang=en

06-25-2012, 09:36 AM	#13
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? H for Heer?

06-25-2012, 10:39 AM	#14
ventilo Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cologne/Germany Posts: 74	Re: Do you have a Ford Flathead V8 H-block? I don't think so. "Heer" means army, Ford trucks were also used by the air forces "Luftwaffe" and marines. If it was a German army spec it would rather read "W" for "Wehrmacht. But I also don't know what "H" stands for .... Or is it "H" for "Holzgas" = generator gas? That would make more sense, as they were low compression engines.