Art vs. History

[Vic Piano]

Sounds good. Hope to see you at the next Amelia event.

[Fe26]

[Quote] I'm assuming you are meaning "Punk" as played by the Sex Pistols, early Damned and the Ramones as comparable to rat rods.

You assume correctly.

[Fe26]

Originally Posted by Tinker

That's a interesting point.

It's an uninteresting point. Artists use media as they see fit, be it paint, paper, canvas, metal, sound, film etc. Some use new materials some use old or recycled materials, the medium is also part of the message.

To imply that art is valid only by the application of certain materials misses the point of the use of materials.

[Tinker]

If you took he Mona Lisa, cut it up to make your art piece and you made it better then yes it could be considered artistic, but if you made it worse well... Rat rods by definition are typically slammed together messes. There are certainly a lot of very nice hot rods made from original cars (what else would you use) and made it look and perform well above the original design.

I didn't think that I alluded to just one medium. There are video artist, but they create video based art that is designed for gallery use only. Yes there is a difference, Commercial Art and Fine Art. There is some cross over but it is very rare that a commercial art piece would show in a gallery. But it is fairly common that a Fine art piece is used within a commercial environment.

Being that there was talk of the truck as fine art, that is what I responded to in my answer.

I am also not saying that a car can not be considered a piece of art. Couple years ago my animation was used in the lobby of the High Museum of Art Atlanta where the show highlighted car design. Attached some pictures below. Was a great show.

[Vic Piano]

The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City has recognized several automobiles as "Art", and displayed them as such. Two instantly come to mind, the 1940 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet and the 1961 Jaguar XKE. That would be an example of a commercial pieces being featured in an Art Gallery. Here's another example of a commercial product becoming an icon of industrial art. Would you consider a glass Coke bottle fine art? I'm sure Raymond Loewy did...

[Tinker]

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Vic there is always exceptions to every rule. Thank god. That's why I said rare, not impossible. Duchamp said the artist decides what is art, hence the urinal. Koons also. Warhol cemented the cross over.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Vic there is always exceptions to every rule. Thank god. That's why I said rare, not impossible. Duchamp said the artist decides what is art, hence the urinal. Koons also. Warhol cemented the cross over.

Who made the "poop" chair that's in MoMA? Warhol certainly took advantage of readily commerical materials and imagines in his art.

An arguement can be made for all of those black velvet paintings as well.

[Tinker]

Warhol drew shoes commercially for years before creating "the factory". It worked well conceptually as he was an American artist "capitalist".

No idea, I guess I missed the poop chair at MoMA the few times I've been there... which is fine by me. ha ha ...gross

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Warhol drew shoes commercially for years before creating "the factory". It worked well conceptually as he was an American artist "capitalist".

No idea, I guess I missed the poop chair at MoMA the few times I've been there... which is fine by me. ha ha ...gross

It's not really made out of poop, but brown gloppy latex that looks like a pile of poop.

I do believe some of the Eames-designed Miller chairs are displayed there as well.

[Tinker]

I guess it had to happen...

Designer works such as a chair (any functional everyday object that is designed well) are shown as Applied Arts, not Fine Art. But, I don't think a McDonalds commercial will be displayed at the Louvre anytime soon.

[SUHRsc]

I spend most of my days wrapped up in a big mix of cars, "art" and history. A few years back I had this idea to somewhat combine the 3. I set to build a period accurate late 1940's Model-A roadster, dry lakes style car. I didn't want to totally stick with the typical form follows function idea of a "hot rod" but also not go to a point of "perfection" like a modern street rod or over restored car. I wanted to blend this into a car that had lines and style that worked well and would be attractive to anyone passing by. I believe I spent more time sitting in my driveway staring at the car adjusting fine points of lines and various items, then I did actually building it.
I got to a certain point where it looked ok but I kept wanting to change this, or that, or something else. Eventually other projects took precedence.

I have yet to be able to get myself wrapped up in it enough to work on it any more. I couldn't find that balance of art/car. So it sits.

Many people stop by or see a photo and can't comprehend why it is just sitting collecting dust. I think it's just that you get to a certain point and you have to decide the path it will take and just go with it. With an ever evolving piece of art as complex as a car built with historic parts. Its just 2 steps forward and 10 steps back.

I find myself so much more drawn to a simple old car without all of the "in your face" attributes. Trying to build a car that is drastically outside of the box and not fall into that "in your face, art car" category is pretty tough.

So it sits.....

[Tinker]

Beautiful.

[Vic Piano]

An arguement can be made for all of those black velvet paintings as well.

Tim, now you're talkin', the Velvet Elvis and "Dogs Playing Poker"... Two of my absolute favorites... LOL

[Tinker]

Certainly Vic. It's kind of wrapped up into the kitsch/lowbrow movement.
http://arthistory.about.com/od/arthi.../a/lowbrow.htm

Great site for lowbrow art.
http://www.juxtapoz.com/

[Vic Piano]

Yeah Tinker but there's no denying its still art... lowbrow or other wise... LOL I'll take a look at those sites you posted... Maybe I can pull some to use in my Cigar City Flatheads event promotions... And speaking of CCF, how about a little Logo art...

[41panelmark]

Old Henery,

I can say that over the years I have found that more people like the un-restored originals a more than the restored and that young kids tend to not even notice either at shows, choosing to go right to the 2000 to 2014 cars. Having said that the other interesting thing I have noted is that if you have an old un-restored ride, custom or "rat rod" the girls/women gravitate to them far more than anything else. Not sure why.

[Vic Piano]

Ask JM, it's gotta be his original '35 ForDor Sedan that attracts all the ladies...

[Tinker]

As we digress from the topic at hand.

Vic I am a fan of low-brow and the ladies :]. CCF logo is nice. Here's my rendition of the rat fink. Added mickey as Roth drew the fink as a anti-mickey. So I thought it was only right.

SUHRsc does some very nice clean illustration, I really like his work.

Hamb has FAST: The friday art show every friday on the site. Some very nice stuff if anyone has not heard of it or cares to check it out.

[Vic Piano]

That's excellent! I was always a big fan of Ed "big Daddy" Roth, copied his art on most of my book covers in Jr. High & Early High School...

[Tinker]

Thanks Vic, did you save any?