The Ford Barn

Bored&Stroked · 01-17-2015, 10:20 AM

Scares the shit out of me! Like one big-ass lathe . . . with things like lug nuts to grab you and suck you in!

I hope you at least had somebody else out in the shop with you?

ford38v8 · 01-17-2015, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

... Id be wary of fitting the nut, as on the one side, that may increase the tendency to want to "grab"....

Mart.

Mart, you misunderstood me. Engine off, in gear, axle key removed. Wheel jacked up off the ground, spin it by hand with the nut doing the exertion required to keep the taper in contact with the drum. It's quick and easy, the compound does it's job, no need to get fancy or to use dangerous methods.

Mart · 01-18-2015, 04:19 AM

Got ya. Use the nut when doing it by hand with the engine off. Good idea.

Mart.

36coupe · 01-18-2015, 07:53 AM

Is it worth trying to repair the threads?
Would a good machine shop be able to cut it down, weld new material then rethread the end?
The taper is excellent in this axle.
I'm in the process of pulling a couple of axles from a 39 rear today.
Are 39 and 38 the same ?

Chappy · 01-18-2015, 09:28 AM

I can't from the picture, but are the threads bad down the whole way down? It looks like they are bad about 3/4" down which brings me to my next question. Keep in mind i'm new to this and not trying to be a hack, but is it possible to just put a spacer under the nut around the bad part of the threads, and still have enough meat to properly torque it down?

Johnnydidd · 01-18-2015, 09:34 AM

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You might try rethreading the axle to 9/16, axle may be worn enough that a 9/16 die may go on fairly easy. Maybe even starting the car letting it idle in low gear and using a small grinder to put a bevel on the axle to get the tap started, make sure the other wheels are blocked, try putting on the emergency to stop the other wheel make sure you have help to make sure all goes well.

36coupe · 01-18-2015, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappy

I can't from the picture, but are the threads bad down the whole way down? It looks like they are bad about 3/4" down which brings me to my next question. Keep in mind i'm new to this and not trying to be a hack, but is it possible to just put a spacer under the nut around the bad part of the threads, and still have enough meat to properly torque it down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnydidd

You might try rethreading the axle to 9/16, axle may be worn enough that a 9/16 die may go on fairly easy. Maybe even starting the car letting it idle in low gear and using a small grinder to put a bevel on the axle to get the tap started, make sure the other wheels are blocked, try putting on the emergency to stop the other wheel make sure you have help to make sure all goes well.

Threads are pretty flat. Not enough there for the split die I got from Johnnydidd, but I have it now for the next time.

200 ft/lbs seems like a lot for for 5/8 threads, I kind of worry about the torque on 9/16" ones.
J
I pulled my spare rear apart and it had a big lump of Ice in it, shame I would like to had spare gears. I'll see now the axle is as I go.

deuce_roadster · 01-18-2015, 01:21 PM

Both axles are the same and interchangeable side to side. I MAG ALL used axles up at the end of the keyway slot.

36coupe · 01-18-2015, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Both axles are the same and interchangeable side to side. I MAG ALL used axles up at the end of the keyway slot.

Do you go to a machine shop for that or have to locate a NDT inspector?

Charlie Stephens · 01-18-2015, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36coupe

Do you go to a machine shop for that or have to locate a NDT inspector?

Try to find a machine shop that is used to working on early Fords (rear ends if possible) and they will know where to look extra carefully for cracks when they test it.

Charlie Stephens

bobH · 01-18-2015, 11:24 PM

Just opinion here, but mag particle insp is pretty simple, and within reach for most of us. After watching shop guys do it, I bought a couple appropriate magnets and mag particle powder. Now I can check block decks, or other parts on the spot - at the swap meet, sellers shop/back yard, wherever.
I haven't tried axles - I suspect they would be a challenge, at least the first time.

Johnnydidd · 01-19-2015, 07:22 AM

Looking the chart below 5/8-18 is .5781 dia, 9/16-18 is .5156 dia only .0625 dia Difference or 1/16" worth a try. both dies have the same thread of 18 threads per inch

Bored&Stroked · 01-19-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36coupe

Threads are pretty flat. Not enough there for the split die I got from Johnnydidd, but I have it now for the next time.

200 ft/lbs seems like a lot for for 5/8 threads, I kind of worry about the torque on 9/16" ones.
J
I pulled my spare rear apart and it had a big lump of Ice in it, shame I would like to had spare gears. I'll see now the axle is as I go.

The torque specs for 5/8 fine are about 240 dry, 180 with thread lubrication. For 9/16 it drops considerably - 170 dry and 130 with lubrication. This is with a Grade 8 fastener.

It will be difficult for somebody to just weld up the end of the axle and have it hold that sort of torque readings on a mild steel weld (I'd be nervous!). Now, there are other weld alloys that can be used - but you may find it hard to find a place that wants to risk this sort of weld on unknown material (the axle) on a critical piece such as this (if it breaks, off goes the wheel). It would surely concern me as the owner - regardless of what somebody says, unless they are experts in these rears, these axles and the materials involved.

You should call the guys at HotRod works - I believe they cut/rework early Ford axles, which means they'd have to re-thread the ends . . . I'm curious as to what they say and maybe they have a solution (as they do a lot of early rears). Here is their number:

208-455-7971
www.hotrodworks.com

If it was mine, I'd find another axle and sleep at night and have no worries going down the road at full speed!

Johnnydidd · 01-19-2015, 10:16 AM

When I was around 10 yrs old, my brother and I were driving home from town going about 40 mph in a Model A, all of a sudden a wheel passed us, my brother said where did that come from, about that time the rear axle dropped straight down, lost all lug nuts, jacked it up put on wheel went on our way. took one lug nut off the other wheels.

36coupe · 03-13-2015, 06:29 AM

I had my axles checked for cracks and all is good.
The two spare axles have good threads and key ways but have one pitting on the gears. I'm not sure if I want to use them. I took my original axle to the machine shops and they will turn a 9/16" thread for $30 so Im going to have that done while I decide which axle to run. The spare rear end that I had was full of water and has a couple of teeth on the axle that are black from corrosion as well as the tapper. If one of the teeth fail that would surely make a big mess of the rear end.
I'll post some pictures so you can see what I am talking about.

36coupe · 03-13-2015, 06:41 AM

I would have to think that these teeth are going to fail once a load is applied.
You also can see the corrosion on the other taper.

36coupe · 03-13-2015, 07:00 AM

This axle has some partial black spots on the teeth but not as bad as the other so I might use this one. I'm not sure how deep the corrision goes into the steel. This reminds me of 4130 we use at work, the way the corrosion doesn't blister but goes straight into the steel.
Should I run this axle or the original with a 9/16 thread?
On the other axle you can see the corrision on the taper.

Planojc · 03-13-2015, 07:15 AM

I had a axle on my 35 with pitting corrosion like that on the teeth and it worked fine except when you went around a corner it made a growling sound. Replaced it with a good one and the sound went away.

36coupe · 03-13-2015, 10:28 PM

Can't decide which axle to use
Leaning towards the one with the least amount of rust.
I'll run it until I find a better one.

Fred A · 03-14-2015, 10:04 AM

I suppose this thread has run its course, but took me a long time to get around to reading it. When I used early Fords for transportation, some of the patchwork solutions would not have been too bad to get me down off the mountain, or as a temporary patch, but scary to hear that there is any chance that I might buy, ride, or drive any car with a compromised axle should be of a concern to the rest of us. This is an area where we should try to run the best parts we can get. I have peeled off a couple of axles in earlier years and discovered one that was ready to fail. Now that I'm making the transition from '42-'48 cars to '40s, a prudent collection of spares to be updated includes some really nice rear axles. They are probably still out there by the millions. In my work in the motion picture studios, Ford axles being so abundant have been have been used for nearly a century as cheap tent stakes. The axle of the discussed year was used for 4-5 years in production. Not much of an excuse to cheat on the repair. Good Luck: Fred A

01-17-2015, 10:20 AM	#41
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,062	Re: Stripped threads on my axle Scares the shit out of me! Like one big-ass lathe . . . with things like lug nuts to grab you and suck you in! I hope you at least had somebody else out in the shop with you?

01-18-2015, 04:19 AM	#43
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,745	Re: Stripped threads on my axle Got ya. Use the nut when doing it by hand with the engine off. Good idea. Mart.

01-18-2015, 07:53 AM	#44
36coupe Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Eastcoast Posts: 863	Re: Stripped threads on my axle Is it worth trying to repair the threads? Would a good machine shop be able to cut it down, weld new material then rethread the end? The taper is excellent in this axle. I'm in the process of pulling a couple of axles from a 39 rear today. Are 39 and 38 the same ?

01-18-2015, 09:28 AM	#45
Chappy Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 55	Re: Stripped threads on my axle I can't from the picture, but are the threads bad down the whole way down? It looks like they are bad about 3/4" down which brings me to my next question. Keep in mind i'm new to this and not trying to be a hack, but is it possible to just put a spacer under the nut around the bad part of the threads, and still have enough meat to properly torque it down?

01-18-2015, 09:34 AM	#46
Johnnydidd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Overland Park, Ks Posts: 559	Re: Stripped threads on my axle Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) You might try rethreading the axle to 9/16, axle may be worn enough that a 9/16 die may go on fairly easy. Maybe even starting the car letting it idle in low gear and using a small grinder to put a bevel on the axle to get the tap started, make sure the other wheels are blocked, try putting on the emergency to stop the other wheel make sure you have help to make sure all goes well.

01-18-2015, 01:21 PM	#48
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,799	Re: Stripped threads on my axle Both axles are the same and interchangeable side to side. I MAG ALL used axles up at the end of the keyway slot.

01-18-2015, 11:24 PM	#51
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: Stripped threads on my axle Just opinion here, but mag particle insp is pretty simple, and within reach for most of us. After watching shop guys do it, I bought a couple appropriate magnets and mag particle powder. Now I can check block decks, or other parts on the spot - at the swap meet, sellers shop/back yard, wherever. I haven't tried axles - I suspect they would be a challenge, at least the first time.

01-19-2015, 07:22 AM	#52
Johnnydidd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Overland Park, Ks Posts: 559	Re: Stripped threads on my axle Looking the chart below 5/8-18 is .5781 dia, 9/16-18 is .5156 dia only .0625 dia Difference or 1/16" worth a try. both dies have the same thread of 18 threads per inch

01-19-2015, 10:16 AM	#54
Johnnydidd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Overland Park, Ks Posts: 559	Re: Stripped threads on my axle When I was around 10 yrs old, my brother and I were driving home from town going about 40 mph in a Model A, all of a sudden a wheel passed us, my brother said where did that come from, about that time the rear axle dropped straight down, lost all lug nuts, jacked it up put on wheel went on our way. took one lug nut off the other wheels.

03-13-2015, 06:29 AM	#55
36coupe Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Eastcoast Posts: 863	Re: Stripped threads on my axle I had my axles checked for cracks and all is good. The two spare axles have good threads and key ways but have one pitting on the gears. I'm not sure if I want to use them. I took my original axle to the machine shops and they will turn a 9/16" thread for $30 so Im going to have that done while I decide which axle to run. The spare rear end that I had was full of water and has a couple of teeth on the axle that are black from corrosion as well as the tapper. If one of the teeth fail that would surely make a big mess of the rear end. I'll post some pictures so you can see what I am talking about.

03-13-2015, 07:15 AM	#58
Planojc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 841	Re: Stripped threads on my axle I had a axle on my 35 with pitting corrosion like that on the teeth and it worked fine except when you went around a corner it made a growling sound. Replaced it with a good one and the sound went away.

03-13-2015, 10:28 PM	#59
36coupe Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Eastcoast Posts: 863	Re: Stripped threads on my axle Can't decide which axle to use Leaning towards the one with the least amount of rust. I'll run it until I find a better one.

03-14-2015, 10:04 AM	#60
Fred A Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Encino California, near Burbank Posts: 935	Re: Stripped threads on my axle I suppose this thread has run its course, but took me a long time to get around to reading it. When I used early Fords for transportation, some of the patchwork solutions would not have been too bad to get me down off the mountain, or as a temporary patch, but scary to hear that there is any chance that I might buy, ride, or drive any car with a compromised axle should be of a concern to the rest of us. This is an area where we should try to run the best parts we can get. I have peeled off a couple of axles in earlier years and discovered one that was ready to fail. Now that I'm making the transition from '42-'48 cars to '40s, a prudent collection of spares to be updated includes some really nice rear axles. They are probably still out there by the millions. In my work in the motion picture studios, Ford axles being so abundant have been have been used for nearly a century as cheap tent stakes. The axle of the discussed year was used for 4-5 years in production. Not much of an excuse to cheat on the repair. Good Luck: Fred A