More reproduction cr-p

[Bob Drake Repro]

Originally Posted by al pa.

Bob,as long as you are reading the posts,and responding,I'm still curious about the closeout throttle,and choke cables I ordered for my 47 merc.They were a closeout,then on backorder,then my money was refunded,and shortly after,they reappeared at the presale price.Comments?

Al,
I can’t be absolutely positive with everything that happened with your order. We did have a “blow-out” special on these and were going to discontinue them. A while back we ran out of the 1947-48 style and marked them as discontinued and returned any money that people had sent in. Later on (since all 1941 thru 1948 Ford cables are the same except for the color of the knob & lettering) we decided to “break off” some of the knobs from the less popular styles (like 1942 special) and put on the more popular styles like 1947-48, thus getting them back in stock.
We have them in stock now and will honor the sale pricing for you. As a side note, I know the Mercury knob is a different color than the Ford but I’m not sure about the length. Ford choke cable is roughly 34 ½” and the throttle is roughly 36 ½” long.

[Bob G/Spanaway]

I have a '14 Hudson along with 4 early V8s
Try to find '14 Hudson parts!

[TonyM]

Originally Posted by Bob G/Spanaway

I have a '14 Hudson along with 4 early V8s
Try to find '14 Hudson parts!

Yep, we Ford guys are lucky in that there are a lot of repro parts out there (and a lot of old Ford cars/parts too). I've have purchased a good number of repro Ford parts lately--so far so good. Also I have had no problem finding the original items I have needed to get either.

Try finding pre-war Buick parts like my brother Mike has to.

A lot of parts don't interchange between all the 1940-1941 Buick Series---Series 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 and Series 90. And some of these cars were low production cars, so there was not a lot to start with anyways.

There are not a lot of repro parts for 1941 Buick Series 90.

Ford V-8 and Model A people are lucky in this respect.

TM

[al pa.]

Bob,
Your intentions may be good,but I found other sources.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Bob Drake Repro

Mr. Kube,
I suppose we owe the readers of this forum an explanation of sorts, you can take it for what you feel it’s worth.

1) Battery box for 1939 Ford Deluxe.
I’ve already sent the change to our catalog department to omit the word “attached” and substitute the word “included”. You see, the picture of the one in our catalog was assembled completely so the employee that wrote the copy, wrote about what they saw. Admittedly, our mistake, I hope we did not cause too much panic in the early Ford world, no deception was intended, we were just trying to convey what the customer should expect to get. The reason they are not completely assembled has to do with shipping. There would be a “pokey” rod that would certainly puncture any box we put it in and probably even damage the part. Also, the full assembly would take a box about twice the size to contain, increasing the shipping charge substantially and guys like you (the ones that don’t want to pay for shipping) would certainly come on the Ford Barn and complain. You can tell this story in a new thread if you like and we’ll post the correspondence we have.


2) Floorboard seals, ’39 Ford.
Nope, we’re not kidding. We spend hours, sometimes days, sometimes weeks on R & D (research and development). We obtain original Ford samples, we have access to original Ford prints, we test our first articles, we test our production on these original Ford samples, we test our production on Ford cars, most times, we even test our production on mating reproduction parts. Attached are pictures of both sides of an original 1939 driver’s side floorboard with a seal we just randomly pulled off our shelf. Also, there are pictures of both sides of a reproduction passenger’s side floorboard with the opposite seal. Looks like both seals “kind of fit” pretty damn nice with no cutting. Are you kidding me? We don’t know where you got the seals you have or even where you got the floorboards you have, but something doesn’t add up. Like it or not, we put the DRAKE name on just about anything we can for occasions like this. In this particular case, we even put a part number on these seals. The correct part number for 1939 is 91A-7011508 and 91A-7011509. We might suggest you look for these numbers at the inside, bottom of the part(s) you have, because we have a sneaky suspicion, wherever you got them might have sent you 1937/1938 seals. These seals are slightly bigger (about what you said you had to cut), but a self proclaimed “expert” such as yourself probably already knew that.

We’ve been doing this Ford parts business for 40+ years. We’re not some fly-by-night outfit trying to steal away your money. But, we’re not perfect yet either and if you’ve got some trouble with one of our parts, we’re just a phone call away. Also, don’t expect the lady or gentleman that takes your problem call to know everything about every Ford that was ever made or even every part that we make, but to take your information and get it to the people that can research it and get you a good answer.
‘nuff said…

Bob

Hi Bob,
To clarify and correct a couple of things:
You can (and may have) looked up my purchase history with your company. It dates back 35+ years and is surely to have passed many, many thousands of dollars. That in itself speaks to the fact that I had (and do in many instances) believe you supply many quality pieces. There was a time in the past I actually defended your company. There were and are times I am actually thankful for some of your offerings.
Of course there was also a time when a large portion of your parts were made in the USA and were of top quality.
Sometime in the past, the way your company was being run had changed. This is not simply my observation, but many others as well. As is nearly always the case, some stand publicly for what they believe in while many choose to stay quiet. Still, many others express their opinions in private. To date, four others have written me about their floor board seals having poor fitment. Many more still, in regard to how they “were the first time your company has heard of (insert problem here)…”
Your personal snipe at me of being a “self proclaimed expert” is laughable but not surprising. I’ve been told when a person has little in the way of a proper defense; the next best posture is a strong offense.
Well, the truth be told, I have NEVER proclaimed myself to be an expert at anything. Not publicly, not privately… I have never even thought that. Simply, I do not have the ego necessary to do such a thing. That may be what keeps me striving always to do better and not accepting “good enough”.
On the other hand, I have restored numerous extremely high point ‘39 & ‘40 Fords. Those examples may lead some to believe I am an expert but once again, I have never claimed such and in fact generally shy away from my displayed vehicles.
My cars may speak for themselves and perhaps that is where you felt the need to portray me as a “self proclaimed expert”. How many cars have you personally and accurately restored?
Regardless of your reasoning, I would be more than happy to compare my base of (accurate) knowledge on ’39 – ’40 Fords compared to yours. The records, drawings and blue prints you speak of having access to are the very same ones all interested parties have access to.
Perhaps you and I can sit down and appraise each of your “authentic”cataloged parts (’39 – ’40) for accuracy?
Your R&D: Mating reproduction parts to other reproduction parts is laughable. Perhaps that is why your bumperettes only fit your bumpers. On the concourse anyone with a decent eye can spot your bumperettes and bumpers 30’ away.
I speak from experience. Not only did I have a lengthy career in quality control, but as a tool & die maker, was also in charge of the Tooling Inspection. That made me responsible for being certain that all tooling was produced correctly as well as the parts those tools manufactured were accurate.

Now, back to your “random selection” of floor board seals. The pair of seals I’d referenced have been trimmed, glued and installed on a certain to be very high point restoration project. I am not about to remove the mat, floor boards, etc. to determine whether or not they were in fact 1939 seals. The sealed Drake box said that was what the box contained. In the future, I (and hopefully others) will take your advice and be certain the box (claimed contents) and the contained parts are in fact one and the same.
I do happen to have one more set of your 1939 floor board seals. Like the last box, this is a Drake box, factory sealed. I did check the seal numbers to be certain these were actually ’39 seals. Again, thanks for the advice to double check your packers.
Turns out they are 91A parts. The picture attached will show quite well how your “randomly selected” parts fit compared to mine. Perhaps it is sheer coincidence that I had two boxes (out of two) that don’t fit correctly? Um, okay. While this part is better than the last, they still require extensive trimming and gluing.
By the way, you may note I am fitting your seals to a beautiful pair of OEM boards.
To those that feel I may have been too crass in my initial post, I apologize. Please take the time to reread that post carefully. To reiterate it in part, my complaint is not so much the quality (or lack thereof) but the receipt of something other than what I’d been promised. It is sad that in this “modern age” too many have come to accept too little. Mostly gone are the days of paying a dollar and getting a dollar’s worth.

[midgetracer]

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In the "good old days" we got very poor fitting parts. I have been restoring Fords for 40 years now and remember when we got parts made in Argentina that didn't even resemble the original. The reproduction part suppliers have been getting better and better. Bob Drake is one of the best. I would like to say that I have rarely been upset with the parts I receive and when I complain to a supplier, it normally is made right. I always order from the firm that has the best reputation even if the price is somewhat higher. Bob is on my good list and I am grateful. Think of how you would take the rant you post before posting it. I for one would not want to go back to the quality of parts made 25 years ago.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by midgetracer

In the "good old days" we got very poor fitting parts. I have been restoring Fords for 40 years now and remember when we got parts made in Argentina that didn't even resemble the original. The reproduction part suppliers have been getting better and better. Bob Drake is one of the best. I would like to say that I have rarely been upset with the parts I receive and when I complain to a supplier, it normally is made right. I always order from the firm that has the best reputation even if the price is somewhat higher. Bob is on my good list and I am grateful. Think of how you would take the rant you post before posting it. I for one would not want to go back to the quality of parts made 25 years ago.

I'd like to know what your response has to do with my post?
I am not questioning the fact that parts are better then the Argentina days. I am questioning the truthfulness of the advertising.
Actually, many of the parts that Bob (and others) made 20 years ago were better than many he (and they) makes now.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Originally Posted by Kube

I'd like to know what your response has to do with my post?
I am not questioning the fact that parts are better then the Argentina days. I am questioning the truthfulness of the advertising.
Actually, many of the parts that Bob (and others) made 20 years ago were better than many he (and they) makes now.

KUBE ....................
Twenty years ago, Bob Drake made all his parts in house. They were the best of anything that you could find on the market. Now, he makes nothing in the USA and the quality and inspections have suffered, plus have gotten more expensive.
MIKE

[Old Redneck]

I stop buying from him a couple of years ago. He needs to do a better job on his parts. I guess live and learn.How manny people on this forum have had this trouble with his parts.A good manny have express there thoughs on this subject in the past.So why act like this is the first time.This lets us know to be careful when buying his stuff.Thanks Kub.

[itstom]

I think Kube hit the nail on the head, it's about truth in advertising. Don't say a part is "as original" if you know it isn't.

Hey Bob, if you think those 1937-1938 seals where put in a 1939 box, how about if you replace them. And pay the return shipping.

Perhaps the die hard BD fans could answer this since it seems like Bob won't; why not pay return shipping when a part clearly is "not as described"?

[Kube]

Bob? Are you out here? Hello?

[V8COOPMAN]

I've been watching this particular thread since June 12th when KUBE wrote his initial post. I've never met KUBE, but he seems to be a reasonably intelligent, down-to-earth kinda guy. Seems to be pretty damn knowledgeable about "things '39 and '40", too. He's made it clear as mud that he'll go out of his way to offer advice and help to ANYONE that asks, yet I've never felt that he was a braggart. I've also never felt that he came-across as a "whiner", as SOME have suggested.

I don't believe there's any "rocket science" involved in UNDERSTANDING the very simple point that KUBE clearly tried to make in the original post. Fortunately, for OLD FORD-dom and mankind in general, a FEW of the seventy-some responses to this thread obviously UNDERSTOOD Kube's point. Unfortunately, a whole bunch of the other responding folks here obviously have a problem comprehending VERY SIMPLE English. KUBE's POINT: Sell what you advertise!

KUBE asked THE Bob for a response. Took THE Bob 18 days to respond the FIRST time. Some of you guys that DID understand what this thread is about, along with KUBE, subsequently noted the ugly and costly experiences when returning parts that "don't quite fit", or are "not exactly as described". I think ALL you guys are still wondering..."WHERE YOU AT, Bob"?

What's really interesting about THE point of all of this is THE Bob's catalog itself. Every time ANY of you folks come here to the 'Barn, there's that gi-hugic catalog emblazoned on the front page. THE Bob has gone to a lot of effort to "place" that big book there for everyone's "convenience". It's obvious that THE Bob is serious about his undertaking. He probably saw a shot at aiming for #1 many years ago. Many would probably agree that he's "arrived" at #1. THE Bob, through ALL of his advertising and hoopla seems to portray his confidence that he IS THE old Ford "repro guy". All ya have to do is read-around that catalog site to realize that THE Bob thinks very-highly of his organization, and that he wants YOU to think the same thing, by ALL of the examples and information strategically inserted. THE Bob would also have you believe that his "high-tech" abilities are very capable of producing "the BEST"! THE Bob even promotes HIS "involvement" in a part, seemingly from the concept stage to completion and sale to SATISFIED (you would be lead to believe) customers. Check-out the following, short quote from "About Bob Drake" in his catalog:

"The look of the parts brilliantly displayed in the catalogs is deceiving. Behind the simple beauty of these parts are complicated and demanding manufacturing processes involving cutting-edge CAD (computer-aided-design) engineering, a variety of casting and mold-making techniques, extrusions, metal die stamping, fabrication and detailing. Bob Drake and his skilled research and development team painstakingly map out the processes for each individual part."

So Bob, with all the "skilled research and development" that the "team" has so "painstakingly" mapped-out "for each individual part", what happened with KUBE's 91-A floor seals, for instance? This is not the first complaint I've seen on the fit of these seals, either. Simple search on FordBarn shows another "happy" customer complaining about the fit of the same part on his '39 on Feb. 5, 2011. Kube's pictures clearly show YOUR seals with the part #. They DON'T FIT! That clearly reminds ME of "Argentina" stuff.

Like KUBE has said...WHERE YOU AT, Bob? If you want to act like #1, you AND your professional "team" need to BE #1. Making un-happy, HOPEFULLY future and repeat customers pay for return shipping on un-satisfactory parts (whatever the reason for dissatisfaction) is NO WAY to earn the respect of people that you have tried to convince that YOU've done your best. DD

[Fe26]

"Gee, you're the first guy that this has happened to"...

[jerry grayson]

The point is that many of the v/8 parts dealers cater to the street rod crowd and they are their #1 customers. Many of these customers could care less if it is "just like original" and if they can make it work it is O K. The customer who is restoring a car and want the parts to look like and fit just as original is a small part of the market and not worth the effort. The customer who will pay the price for a perfect part is a little rare also, so the dealer has to find a balance with all these conflicts. Some do and some don't.

[Vic Piano]

V8COUPEMAN, here's a suggestion I humbly offer up. Instead of jumping on the band wagon, whining and castigating Bob Drake, why don't you invest your time and money to compete with Bob Drake in the Ford parts reproduction business...? Think of it, you could make all the same parts to the exacting specifications of the original Ford parts and sell them at competitive prices. You'd have nothing but completely satisfied customers, never having to return an item that you produced. However, you may find that (even with the quantity and quality of myriad parts you produce) someone somewhere might not be happy with a part they got from you, or your level of customer service, and go after you with a vengeance on a website such as the FordBarn. After making a sizeable investment of your time and money, you’ll find that you can’t please everyone all the time even if you produce a flawless replica of an original part. The obvious alternative to buying reproduction parts from Bob Drake is to find serviceable original parts or make them yourself.

As for the primary part in question in this thread (floorboard seals) I ordered them from Bob Drake for our ’39 CS and installed them with no trouble and they were a perfect fit. I can only judge by my own experience and from that, I have only one critique of Bob Drake and that is having to wait for some items because they were on “back order”.

I hope you consider my suggestion and I look forward (with great anticipation) to the launch of your line of Ford reproduction parts, and may I also suggest that you expand your forthcoming product line to include a complete inventory of exact reproduction ’39 Lincoln Zephyr parts… I’ll be your best customer!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Vic Piano

V8COUPEMAN, here's a suggestion I humbly offer up. Instead of jumping on the band wagon, whining and castigating Bob Drake, why don't you invest your time and money to compete with Bob Drake in the Ford parts reproduction business...? Think of it, you could make all the same parts to the exacting specifications of the original Ford parts and sell them at competitive prices. You'd have nothing but completely satisfied customers, never having to return an item that you produced. However, you may find that (even with the quantity and quality of myriad parts you produce) someone somewhere might not be happy with a part they got from you, or your level of customer service, and go after you with a vengeance on a website such as the FordBarn. After making a sizeable investment of your time and money, you’ll find that you can’t please everyone all the time even if you produce a flawless replica of an original part. The obvious alternative to buying reproduction parts from Bob Drake is to find serviceable original parts or make them yourself.

As for the primary part in question in this thread (floorboard seals) I ordered them from Bob Drake for our ’39 CS and installed them with no trouble and they were a perfect fit. I can only judge by my own experience and from that, I have only one critique of Bob Drake and that is having to wait for some items because they were on “back order”.

I hope you consider my suggestion and I look forward (with great anticipation) to the launch of your line of Ford reproduction parts, and may I also suggest that you expand your forthcoming product line to include a complete inventory of exact reproduction ’39 Lincoln Zephyr parts… I’ll be your best customer!

Vic, With all due respect, you, like a few others have missed the point. This is not about who makes the parts, what they cost, how quickly they arrive (or slow)... this is about what was advertised vs. what is delivered and the subsequent way the problem is handled (or not).
If you think what I and others are doing is whining you have then sorely missed the point.
In this particular situation, past experience has proven little or nothing gets accomplished without public exposure.
Think of your LP tank that someone was paid to install correctly. They obviously had NO clue how to do that job. Very obviously. You paid to have the tank installed correctly. Yes? Is it right that you got very substandard workmanship? Did you have to pay the Bozos that installed it to do it once again?
Perhaps you are okay with receiving less then you paid for. Me? No way. I sell a lot of parts, etc. I ship what I promise / advertise and if someone is not happy (rare, but it happens) I handle it quickly and ethically. If I make a mistake (I do) I eat the return shipping. That is not only fair, it is the ONLY ethical way to handle such things.
I still find it incredibly telling that Bob is MIA from this and other related posts. it is more then obvious he is watching as he responded to the post in regard to cowl vent mechanisms.
I think by NOT responding he (Bob) has in fact offered his response.

[rich b]

Originally Posted by jerry grayson

The point is that many of the v/8 parts dealers cater to the street rod crowd and they are their #1 customers. Many of these customers could care less if it is "just like original" and if they can make it work it is O K. The customer who is restoring a car and want the parts to look like and fit just as original is a small part of the market and not worth the effort. The customer who will pay the price for a perfect part is a little rare also, so the dealer has to find a balance with all these conflicts. Some do and some don't.

Funny, every time I complain about the quality issues of repop parts the vendors says it's because the restorers won't pay the price.

[Vic Piano]

KUBE, while it's true that I was born at night, it wasn't last night... I fully understood your compliant and discontent with Bob Drake though I don't condone or respect your "public castigation". I am not dismissing the alleged misrepresentation in advertising and/or in catalogs and I do agree that that should be addressed where applicable. I'm sure there are a large number of hobbyist that, like myself, have not had the same negative experience with Bob Drake that you have. I've been doing business with Bob Drake for many years and I’ve purchased parts from him for a number of our Flatheads ranging from '39 to '53 and, as I stated in an earlier post; my only angst has been with parts on "back order". Relevant to my propane gas tank situation (as it pertains to your post), I don't pay anyone working on our home in advance, especially when the work requires a permit and subsequent inspection by the County. Back to your beef with Bob Drake, it is my belief that you "get more fly’s with honey" (to use a euphemism) and I don't believe that one-sided attacks on public forums are an effective way to improve relations and/or prompt a response from a company or an individual. I would guess that someone such as yourself, (with your vast knowledge and experience with ’39 & ’40 Fords) would be up for the task of creating and possibly marketing those parts that you bring into question relevant to Bob Drake’s reproduction quality. As I also stated previously; if you should see fit to delve into the parts reproduction business and produce products to exacting Ford “specs”, I’ll be your best customer. Vic

[FL&WVMIKE]

Vic Piano ...................
You say, "You get more flys with honey than you do with vineger".
Sheldon Cooper of THE BIG BANG THEORY, says, "You get even more with manure, so what's your point ?". HeeHee
MIKE

[Vic Piano]

Mike, you spread what you want... and I'll spread what I want... LOL

How's things on the first coast... Are you staying dry?