1937 Pickup runs with choke, dies as soon as choke is off. And other questions

[BrentFreeman]

Vehicle: 1937 Ford Pickup 85hp V8 21 stud flathead with a Stromberg 97 Carbutetor in a 1938 Body style. So looks like a '38 with a '37 motor, which I hear is quite common.

Problem: Truck will start and idle with full choke and a slight amount of throttle, soon as partial choke truck immediately dies. Pressing the accelerator does not appear to do much of anything, other than prolong the dying a second.

I am highly suspicious of the carburetor, but I know very little about them other than what I have learned recently, as my backyard mechanic experience has pertained to 1990's+ cars. I am also suspicious of the ignition system for 3 reasons, though I kinda want to discount this since the car basically idles under choke. Is there any reason that the ignition part of a car that idles under choke would have issues without it? 1st reason is that I thought I detected a slight random miss the day before and wanted to check to make sure I was getting good current on the spark plugs. I had read in one of my grandfathers old repair books that you could pull off a wire and check to see if it would jump to the spark plug at a distance that I don't recall right now. On the first plug I tried, I got a nice shock, dropped the wire, and shut the truck off. Put the wire back on the plug, restarted it, checked to make sure it seamed ok, and shut it off again. It did seam ok, but the next day, the truck had the problem. 2nd reason is that when I pulled the wire, I made sure I grabbed insulation and not the metal end. I noticed that the wire arched within itself, which surprises me as I thought that one would have to ground it before you had a circuit completed and a spark occurred, unless my hand was just a little too close to the metal end and I was completing the circuit. Leaves me wondering if perhaps I need new wires? 3rd reason probably not a reason but I will mention it anyway, day before I pulled the wire I had put motor oil in the little cap that's on the right-front part of the distributor, someone on the forums had mentioned it, and not knowing where that was, and how much to put in, I had checked my 38's manual I noticed it mentioned putting oil in the distributor having a little "cap" in the diagram with a similar appearance to the one on my truck. I assumed I had found the correct location for it. Can someone confirm for me that I indeed put oil in the correct cap? Its about the diameter of a pencil, with a spring loaded cap on top of it that lifts up, and perhaps expand on how much oil to put in it, I used a plastic straw to put about 2 inches worth in it (ie. not too much).


A little history that might help with the diagnostic: This was my great grandfathers truck, and it's been garaged for ~25-30 years. I know my grandfather had worked on it before he passed away. The last time it was tagged was in '86. When we had to move it about 5 years ago it was started up and moved, with only thing being done to it was a new battery. The water pumps froze up at this time, and it was shutdown and left.

Over the last year I have started to clean it up, replaced the water pumps, flushed the radiator, replaced the oil/filter with 20w-50, and replaced the battery. When we couldn't get the truck to start other than dumping fuel down the carb for a few seconds, my dad and I traced the problem to the valves in the fuel pump and then replaced the fuel pump/filter and dumped the old gas from the tank and put new gas in.

At this point the truck fired right up with no issues at all. It ran and idled just fine with no choke at all! I let it run for about 5 minutes until it warmed up a bit, and then shut it down. For about 4 days or so, I would start and run the truck for about 5-10 minutes, each time it started quickly with no choke, just a couple of pumps on the acc. pedal. Then the day after the aforementioned sparkplug wire incident, it just refused to start. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!

[ken ct]

I would get a set of wires and plugs for it and if it dosn't help go for a carb rebuild. OMO ken ct. new condenser and a check of the points.

[Ron in AZ]

The last time I had the same problem as you ,I found a bit of dirt or something stuck in the main jet.
If you keep pumping the peddel when you take the choke off will it kinda still run?

[ford1]

i hate to disagree with ken ct, hes real good with these old cars, but plugs and wires have nothing to do with the engine running only when choke is pulled, that tells me the engine is not getting enough fuel, gas line plugged at or in tank, pinched line some where before carb, weak fuel pump, plugged fuel filter, something blocking fuel getting into carb, float level to low, something in carb restricking fuel to engine, plugged jets?, blow out all fuel lines, check fuel pressure at carb, it should be #2 1/2 to #3,, get under car and check fuel line from tank to fuel pump, check for kinks or flat spots, if you see any damp spots on the line check and see why, remove carb and blow out all fuel passages, i would even boil it out since you have it off, if you have any rubber fuel lines replace them with new hoses that will tolerate alcohol,

[Tinker]

First off that is a 38' ford pu. or a 39 can't tell from the aviator (easiest way to tell is the grill). But, I'm assuming 38' since the engine is a late 37- early 38. It should have vin numbers on the drivers-side front frame rail between the engine mount and the firewall.

New plug wires and plugs can't hurt. One way to tell if your wires are bad is to start it in the dark. If you have a light show get some new wires. Clean plugs and gap.

I agree with the consensus on here that the carb is restricted.

A few drops of oil in these cups is plenty. I was told during an oil change just put a drop in the cup. There is another on the generator.

Just my thoughts, I'm no expert!

[Henry/Kokomo]

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I agree with the fuel delivery problem. I'd be sure to check the flex line that goes from the firewall to the fuel pump. They get old and collapse internally. A new, strong fuel pump might have hastened the process. Good luck and keep us posted.

[RBaker]

Originally Posted by BrentFreeman

Vehicle: 1937 Ford Pickup 85hp V8 21 stud flathead with a Stromberg 97 Carbutetor in a 1938 Body style. So looks like a '38 with a '37 motor, which I hear is quite common.

Problem: Truck will start and idle with full choke and a slight amount of throttle, soon as partial choke truck immediately dies. Pressing the accelerator does not appear to do much of anything, other than prolong the dying a second.

I am highly suspicious of the carburetor, but I know very little about them other than what I have learned recently, as my backyard mechanic experience has pertained to 1990's+ cars. I am also suspicious of the ignition system for 3 reasons, though I kinda want to discount this since the car basically idles under choke. Is there any reason that the ignition part of a car that idles under choke would have issues without it? 1st reason is that I thought I detected a slight random miss the day before and wanted to check to make sure I was getting good current on the spark plugs. I had read in one of my grandfathers old repair books that you could pull off a wire and check to see if it would jump to the spark plug at a distance that I don't recall right now. On the first plug I tried, I got a nice shock, dropped the wire, and shut the truck off. Put the wire back on the plug, restarted it, checked to make sure it seamed ok, and shut it off again. It did seam ok, but the next day, the truck had the problem. 2nd reason is that when I pulled the wire, I made sure I grabbed insulation and not the metal end. I noticed that the wire arched within itself, which surprises me as I thought that one would have to ground it before you had a circuit completed and a spark occurred, unless my hand was just a little too close to the metal end and I was completing the circuit. Leaves me wondering if perhaps I need new wires? 3rd reason probably not a reason but I will mention it anyway, day before I pulled the wire I had put motor oil in the little cap that's on the right-front part of the distributor, someone on the forums had mentioned it, and not knowing where that was, and how much to put in, I had checked my 38's manual I noticed it mentioned putting oil in the distributor having a little "cap" in the diagram with a similar appearance to the one on my truck. I assumed I had found the correct location for it. Can someone confirm for me that I indeed put oil in the correct cap? Its about the diameter of a pencil, with a spring loaded cap on top of it that lifts up, and perhaps expand on how much oil to put in it, I used a plastic straw to put about 2 inches worth in it (ie. not too much).


A little history that might help with the diagnostic: This was my great grandfathers truck, and it's been garaged for ~25-30 years. I know my grandfather had worked on it before he passed away. The last time it was tagged was in '86. When we had to move it about 5 years ago it was started up and moved, with only thing being done to it was a new battery. The water pumps froze up at this time, and it was shutdown and left.

Over the last year I have started to clean it up, replaced the water pumps, flushed the radiator, replaced the oil/filter with 20w-50, and replaced the battery. When we couldn't get the truck to start other than dumping fuel down the carb for a few seconds, my dad and I traced the problem to the valves in the fuel pump and then replaced the fuel pump/filter and dumped the old gas from the tank and put new gas in.

At this point the truck fired right up with no issues at all. It ran and idled just fine with no choke at all! I let it run for about 5 minutes until it warmed up a bit, and then shut it down. For about 4 days or so, I would start and run the truck for about 5-10 minutes, each time it started quickly with no choke, just a couple of pumps on the acc. pedal. Then the day after the aforementioned sparkplug wire incident, it just refused to start. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!

The part where you said you dumped old gas from the tank has me concerned.....I'm pretty sure your carb is dirty.
Just remove it, get some good carb cleaner and clean it well.....these old carbs are simple.
Clean the fuel filter and fuel pump also.

[BrentFreeman]

I replaced the flex line that goes from the firewall to the fuel pump when I replaced the fuel pump last week, and the fuel filter that was located there. I also have stuck new autolite 386 sparkplugs in. Continue to have the same problem. I just checked the line between the tank and the engine and I do not notice any leaks or kinks. I suppose I should have said that when I have run it, it's stayed in the garage, except for once when I backed it out to wash it.

Pumping the accelerator, while removing the choke will let it buck a few times before it finally stalls. Basically anything less than 9/10ths of full choke will not allow it to run. Pulling the air filter off it so I can see into the carb, it appears that it needs the choke plate closed. I was wondering does the carb "pull" fuel with the choke off via manifold pressure? I hooked a pressure gauge directly to the windshield wiper vacuum line, to make sure that wasn't causing any problems (noticed that it didn't appear to appear to be operating like i had noticed it was before, only goes about 1/2 way). I am getting about 300 mmHg according to the guage, which should be 12 inHg if my conversion is correct. I can't get a reading with no choke, because truck stalls.

I really think it's most likely a dirty carb like you are all suggesting, I am thinking I probably should get a rebuild kit before I do that since it seams like anything I touch that is rubber or a gasket crumbles to dust! or is there a way to clean it that I don't know about? What carb kit should I get or rather ones I should avoid?


RBaker: I dumped the gas after I replaced the fuel filter and realized it wasn't getting any gas (new filter is clear universal). It was more of a precaution after reading all the bad things about old gas, and it was old, smelled of varnish, had a slight rusty color to it. Because the fuel pump wasn't working it shouldn't have ever got to the carb.

Tinker: thanks for the info on the amount of oil. It was registered in 1937 and the grill has the V8 in the center piece, so it's a 1938 body made in 1937, and has a 21 stud motor rather than that 24 stud, which can cause some confusion, esp when looking for new spark plugs as I discovered. Ordered some NGK 3212 14mm plugs, only to discover they weren't the right size when I went to stick them on.

[41ford1]

Since you got bit when checking for spark leads me to believe the insulation on the plug wires is bad. You should replace them. Because you need to close the choke to get it to run you need to to do a clean out of the carb. I think during the dumping of the old gas you dislodged a bunch of crap. I suspect you're going to find blocked main jets and idle passages.

[Mike in AZ]

as others have said, could be plugs, wires, points??...if you pull the line going into the carb, and crank the engine over, see if you have good spurts of gas coming from the fuel pump....if so, your fuel pump might not be the problem...you say when you hit the gas, it starts to die??....sounds like you need a carb rebuild, as the accelerator pump should pump gas into the venturis, making the engine speed up....sounds like you're on the way to getting it on the road....good luck as it has some good history from your family....just my thots...Mike

[Kevin in MT]

my 39 acted the same and i found a stuck intake valve to be the problem

[Richard (EV8G)]

I did not read every word posted, so excuse me if this is repeating something already mentioned... It seems like it is too lean, which is helped out when the
choke is closed, so you might look for a vacuum leak before you try all the other stuff suggested...

[BrentFreeman]

I am getting about 300 mmHg according to the gauge, which should be 12 inHg if my conversion is correct. Needle doesn't bounce while idling with choke. Is this correct vacuum? I can't find a number other than for other engines, which is suppose to be more.

[Richard (EV8G)]

Originally Posted by BrentFreeman

I am getting about 300 mmHg according to the gauge, which should be 12 inHg if my conversion is correct. Needle doesn't bounce while idling with choke. Is this correct vacuum? I can't find a number other than for other engines, which is suppose to be more.

Dunno, but if there is a leak, you might hear it OR can squirt water ?
on potential leak areas and if it sucks it in, that's it...

[OLD...BILL]

Brent: What kit to get ?? please tell us where the fuel line goes in the carb. top ( air horn ) or in the side of the main body, with a bronze fitting ??
Top; its 94 sometimes called Holly....and in the side its 97 Stromberg....look for some numbers on the sides of both carbs ID numbers not paten numbers.
NOW: don't be in to big hurry, remove the carb, disconnect fuel line, take each nut off one at time, and away from the engine, carb off engine, cover the open ports in manifold, masking tape, old shop rage ( all this is not to drop something down in the open engine ) now check for gas flow, with a "catch-can" on the fuel line crank the engine, key is OFF ....be safe.... I'ed go the Ken.CT. for kit and information, he's full of it....OLD....BILL

[rotorwrench]

An infernal combustion engine needs between 12:1 to 18:1 air to fuel ratio to continue to run. 12:1 would be pretty rich and smoking black. 18:1 would be so lean that it would back fire through the carb easily with the slightest throttle movement. Pulling the choke all the way closed will restrict the incoming air down to a point that it will still run with the limited supply of fuel it's nursing on. My vote is for some crud in the carburetor passages or jets. It doesn't take much either.

The 97 is a pretty simple carb but you will need a few tools to be sure and disassemble it without damage. A jet wrench for one. A good soaking in some cleaner and blasting with compressed air will do wonders.

Kerby

[Tinker]

For carb. parts contact KenCt on here. He can help you out or rebuild it for you if you like.

Understood on the year 37'. I have a 38' ford truck with a 21 bolt flathead as well. Ford did a early/mid-year change over in 38' to the 24 bolt flatheads.

Truck looks great. Good luck.

[ford1]

OLD BILL, seems you have been the nut or washer bit down an open maniflod port, been there done that, xlnt advice, others should take heed, experience is the best teacher

[ken ct]

Originally Posted by BrentFreeman

Vehicle: 1937 Ford Pickup 85hp V8 21 stud flathead with a Stromberg 97 Carbutetor in a 1938 Body style. So looks like a '38 with a '37 motor, which I hear is quite common.

Problem: Truck will start and idle with full choke and a slight amount of throttle, soon as partial choke truck immediately dies. Pressing the accelerator does not appear to do much of anything, other than prolong the dying a second.

I am highly suspicious of the carburetor, but I know very little about them other than what I have learned recently, as my backyard mechanic experience has pertained to 1990's+ cars. I am also suspicious of the ignition system for 3 reasons, though I kinda want to discount this since the car basically idles under choke. Is there any reason that the ignition part of a car that idles under choke would have issues without it? 1st reason is that I thought I detected a slight random miss the day before and wanted to check to make sure I was getting good current on the spark plugs. I had read in one of my grandfathers old repair books that you could pull off a wire and check to see if it would jump to the spark plug at a distance that I don't recall right now. On the first plug I tried, I got a nice shock, dropped the wire, and shut the truck off. Put the wire back on the plug, restarted it, checked to make sure it seamed ok, and shut it off again. It did seam ok, but the next day, the truck had the problem. 2nd reason is that when I pulled the wire, I made sure I grabbed insulation and not the metal end. I noticed that the wire arched within itself, which surprises me as I thought that one would have to ground it before you had a circuit completed and a spark occurred, unless my hand was just a little too close to the metal end and I was completing the circuit. Leaves me wondering if perhaps I need new wires? 3rd reason probably not a reason but I will mention it anyway, day before I pulled the wire I had put motor oil in the little cap that's on the right-front part of the distributor, someone on the forums had mentioned it, and not knowing where that was, and how much to put in, I had checked my 38's manual I noticed it mentioned putting oil in the distributor having a little "cap" in the diagram with a similar appearance to the one on my truck. I assumed I had found the correct location for it. Can someone confirm for me that I indeed put oil in the correct cap? Its about the diameter of a pencil, with a spring loaded cap on top of it that lifts up, and perhaps expand on how much oil to put in it, I used a plastic straw to put about 2 inches worth in it (ie. not too much).


A little history that might help with the diagnostic: This was my great grandfathers truck, and it's been garaged for ~25-30 years. I know my grandfather had worked on it before he passed away. The last time it was tagged was in '86. When we had to move it about 5 years ago it was started up and moved, with only thing being done to it was a new battery. The water pumps froze up at this time, and it was shutdown and left.

Over the last year I have started to clean it up, replaced the water pumps, flushed the radiator, replaced the oil/filter with 20w-50, and replaced the battery. When we couldn't get the truck to start other than dumping fuel down the carb for a few seconds, my dad and I traced the problem to the valves in the fuel pump and then replaced the fuel pump/filter and dumped the old gas from the tank and put new gas in.

At this point the truck fired right up with no issues at all. It ran and idled just fine with no choke at all! I let it run for about 5 minutes until it warmed up a bit, and then shut it down. For about 4 days or so, I would start and run the truck for about 5-10 minutes, each time it started quickly with no choke, just a couple of pumps on the acc. pedal. Then the day after the aforementioned sparkplug wire incident, it just refused to start. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!

You only need 2-3 drops of oil in the cup also one on the gen. ken ct. You also need a special jet wrench and a special tool to remove the power valve and knowage of how to remove the emultion tubes to clean and check them. There not as simple as some people make them out to be.

[richard crow]

take the top of carb off see if float is free some times when they sit for a long time the float sticks due to varnich & onley lets a little fuel in a simple task & don,t cost any thing to do. & while you have the carb top off put the fuel line in a can & have some one push the starter button & see how much fuel is being pumped leave ign switch off when doing this test.