The Ford Barn

NoviceLou · 04-11-2024, 08:26 AM

I own an engine-less 1939 half ton pick up that I've started restoration on. I want to put a flathead V-8 back in for a sometimes daily driver. I'm looking at and thinking a 1953 8ba might be better suited for a periodic 100- highway mile trip based on advances made by Ford to reduce overheating. Is that engine OK to swap? I have a rebuilt transmission, a re-cored radiator, and the original drive shaft and rear end. Do I need to do other work on these parts to make it fit? Will the current engine mounts be sufficient? Thanks.

NoviceLou

Seth Swoboda · 04-11-2024, 08:43 AM

I would prefer a 59A. Same power out of a stock engine but it will look like it belongs in the truck. Also the water pumps and heads won't pose a fitment issue with a 59A. The 59A is a direct install, no issues.

The 8ba is my least favorite flathead engine.

Ol' Ron · 04-11-2024, 08:45 AM

8RT water pumps to start with. At one time there was an adapter that allowed the 8ba pumps to be used, but I never see them advertized any more. I make my own.
However that gets the engine in, you'll need the early merc bell ousing, and the early cluch linkage should work just fine.
This is an easy swap, unfortunately, some people can make it very complicated.
THINK!!!
Gramps

51504bat · 04-11-2024, 09:15 AM

I have an 8ba in my '39 p/u. I use Merc pumps with the U shaped spacers since the Merc pumps are narrow belt to match the 8ba. You can use 8rt truck pumps which eliminates the need for the spacers between the mount tabs on the pumps and the rubber biscuit mount. But they are wide belt so you'll need a wide belt crank and generator/alternator pulley. I have the Merc stamped steel half bell housing to allow the stock '39 trans to bolt up. you can also use a cast iron half bell from a truck. Just make sure you get the correct starter plate for whatever half bell you use. I'm using a rear sump truck pan for tie rod clearance.

As far as looks go the average person will only see that is a flathead not a 59ab but that's JMO. Another advantage, again IMO is you can use a converted Chevy distributor. Solves the Loadamatic issue if you want to run dual carbs.

tubman · 04-11-2024, 09:27 AM

Looks aside, Ford engineers improved the 8BA in several ways over the earlier units. Cooling probably being the most significant. If you replace the stock "Load-a-Matic" distributor with a Mallory dual point or a converted GM distributor, it will provide a superior ignition system that has the added advantage of being much easier to service.

I believe that the use of an early '50's Mercury clutch will facilitate this swap.

Also, for the best possible fitment, pre-'41 vehicles need a spacer under the front mounts, even with truck pumps.

19Fordy · 04-11-2024, 10:06 AM

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NoviceLou: I installed an 8BA in my 40 coupe in 1972 and it's still there. The biggest problem is fan interference with the rad hoses and finding the req'd 1949-53 Merc bellhousing, clutch, pressure plate and flywheel. Borg and Beck clutch pressure plates are getting hard to find. I have an extra 1950 Merc stamped steel bellhousing and matching starter plate ( that you will need) if you don't already have one.
Read all the related info. on this swap shown here. 1939 and 40 Ford pickup and car are the same.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=8ba+in...ANAB01&PC=HCTS

NoviceLou · 04-12-2024, 08:01 AM

To 19Fordy, tubman,51504bat, Ol'Ron, and Seth Swoboda: Thanks to all for some great ideas and thoughts to consider. Luck will have it that since I first wrote I have the opportunity to look at BOTH a 1939 engine AND a 1953. Decisions. Decisions.

38 coupe · 04-12-2024, 08:27 AM

I prefer to run the earlier center water outlet type engines in 39 and older trucks. The 8BA is a great engine, the best flathead V8 series in terms of use, but fitting one into the earlier vehicles is a bit of a juggling act. The center water outlet types just bolt in and use a stock fan. With an 8BA you're probably going to end up with an electric fan.

JWL did careful testing on a dyno (specifics in his very good book Flathead Facts) and determined on an 8BA there is no need to swap out the factory distributor unless you do either one of these two things:
1 - run a non-factory camshaft that messes with the vacuum signal to the carburetor
2 - run a non-factory carburetor that lacks the specific vacuum signal for the distributor (it is NOT manifold vacuum).

Seth Swoboda · 04-12-2024, 09:25 AM

I really don't think you'll be dissapointed with a 24 stud, 221ci, 1939 engine or a 59A. I have a '39 pickup in stock form. It drives really nice and has plenty of power with a 3.78 rearend. I wouldn't be afraid to install a 3.54 rearend in mine. Yes, you can install and 8BA with some extra work. These trucks have been overlooked by many for decades but they drive and ride much better than the earlier pickups. I'll admit the styling on the earlier (1932-1935) pickups is better.

19Fordy · 04-12-2024, 10:04 AM

Seth is correct. Stick with the stock engine because everything fits as it should without any hassles. Installing an 8BA requires lots of modifications that snowball into a "project" requiring changes that you weren't aware of like fan pulley and water pump changes.
You need 8RT water pumps and the fan blade clearance problem must be solved. In the photo above you can see the custom made adjustable alum. fan pulley and alternator bracket.
plus, the Y-bracket fender brace must be removed. I made "angle iron" supports bolted to frame as shown in Post #6 above.

Ol' Ron · 04-12-2024, 10:40 AM

In my new stock engine build up i use the late 8ba pumps on both the early and late blocks. I also use the alet ylinder heads (EAB) An 12V Altinator. I install a drivers side water pump pulley on the drivers side pump.
I cinvert a SBC Harmonic bakancer to the Ford crank and run the alt and water pumps with oNE narrow belt/ I also eliminate the fuel pump
The car has to have an intank fuel pump and an electric fan
The finished product is an engine with enough power to cruise a 3500 lb car at 64mph with excellent fuel economy . With a spare starter in the trunk, you can go any place in the USA and always have the ability to keep it running. The cost of building the engine is very low depending how a good a scroger you are/ You can use a stock carb and distributor. But the problem here is esthetics, it isn't pretty. But still running after 100K miles.
Gramps

petehoovie · 04-12-2024, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

NoviceLou: I installed an 8BA in my 40 coupe in 1972 and it's still there. The biggest problem is fan interference with the rad hoses and finding the req'd 1949-53 Merc bellhousing, clutch, pressure plate and flywheel. Borg and Beck clutch pressure plates are getting hard to find. I have an extra 1950 Merc stamped steel bellhousing and matching starter plate ( that you will need) if you don't already have one.
Read all the related info. on this swap shown here. 1939 and 40 Ford pickup and car are the same.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=8ba+in...ANAB01&PC=HCTS

NoviceLou · 04-13-2024, 10:22 AM

To all my responders- thanks again. I'll let you know the outcome. My time table may be a little lengthy since I'm just about down to the chassis frame but need to de-grease it, get the rust sandblasted, inspected, primed, etc before starting the rebuild. Finding this forum has been a catalyst to resuming this rebuild started several years ago.

04-11-2024, 08:26 AM	#1
NoviceLou Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2024 Posts: 3	Swapping Engines I own an engine-less 1939 half ton pick up that I've started restoration on. I want to put a flathead V-8 back in for a sometimes daily driver. I'm looking at and thinking a 1953 8ba might be better suited for a periodic 100- highway mile trip based on advances made by Ford to reduce overheating. Is that engine OK to swap? I have a rebuilt transmission, a re-cored radiator, and the original drive shaft and rear end. Do I need to do other work on these parts to make it fit? Will the current engine mounts be sufficient? Thanks. NoviceLou

04-11-2024, 08:43 AM	#2
Seth Swoboda Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 3,795	Re: Swapping Engines I would prefer a 59A. Same power out of a stock engine but it will look like it belongs in the truck. Also the water pumps and heads won't pose a fitment issue with a 59A. The 59A is a direct install, no issues. The 8ba is my least favorite flathead engine.

04-11-2024, 08:45 AM	#3
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,864	Re: Swapping Engines 8RT water pumps to start with. At one time there was an adapter that allowed the 8ba pumps to be used, but I never see them advertized any more. I make my own. However that gets the engine in, you'll need the early merc bell ousing, and the early cluch linkage should work just fine. This is an easy swap, unfortunately, some people can make it very complicated. THINK!!! Gramps

04-11-2024, 09:15 AM	#4
51504bat Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: SoCal-Redlands Posts: 3,026	Re: Swapping Engines I have an 8ba in my '39 p/u. I use Merc pumps with the U shaped spacers since the Merc pumps are narrow belt to match the 8ba. You can use 8rt truck pumps which eliminates the need for the spacers between the mount tabs on the pumps and the rubber biscuit mount. But they are wide belt so you'll need a wide belt crank and generator/alternator pulley. I have the Merc stamped steel half bell housing to allow the stock '39 trans to bolt up. you can also use a cast iron half bell from a truck. Just make sure you get the correct starter plate for whatever half bell you use. I'm using a rear sump truck pan for tie rod clearance. As far as looks go the average person will only see that is a flathead not a 59ab but that's JMO. Another advantage, again IMO is you can use a converted Chevy distributor. Solves the Loadamatic issue if you want to run dual carbs. __________________ Making the simple complicated for over 30 years.

04-11-2024, 09:27 AM	#5
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,322	Re: Swapping Engines Looks aside, Ford engineers improved the 8BA in several ways over the earlier units. Cooling probably being the most significant. If you replace the stock "Load-a-Matic" distributor with a Mallory dual point or a converted GM distributor, it will provide a superior ignition system that has the added advantage of being much easier to service. I believe that the use of an early '50's Mercury clutch will facilitate this swap. Also, for the best possible fitment, pre-'41 vehicles need a spacer under the front mounts, even with truck pumps. Last edited by tubman; 04-11-2024 at 10:09 AM.

04-12-2024, 08:01 AM	#7
NoviceLou Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2024 Posts: 3	Re: Swapping Engines To 19Fordy, tubman,51504bat, Ol'Ron, and Seth Swoboda: Thanks to all for some great ideas and thoughts to consider. Luck will have it that since I first wrote I have the opportunity to look at BOTH a 1939 engine AND a 1953. Decisions. Decisions.

04-12-2024, 08:27 AM	#8
38 coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Texas Posts: 1,631	Re: Swapping Engines I prefer to run the earlier center water outlet type engines in 39 and older trucks. The 8BA is a great engine, the best flathead V8 series in terms of use, but fitting one into the earlier vehicles is a bit of a juggling act. The center water outlet types just bolt in and use a stock fan. With an 8BA you're probably going to end up with an electric fan. JWL did careful testing on a dyno (specifics in his very good book Flathead Facts) and determined on an 8BA there is no need to swap out the factory distributor unless you do either one of these two things: 1 - run a non-factory camshaft that messes with the vacuum signal to the carburetor 2 - run a non-factory carburetor that lacks the specific vacuum signal for the distributor (it is NOT manifold vacuum).

04-12-2024, 09:25 AM	#9
Seth Swoboda Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 3,795	Re: Swapping Engines I really don't think you'll be dissapointed with a 24 stud, 221ci, 1939 engine or a 59A. I have a '39 pickup in stock form. It drives really nice and has plenty of power with a 3.78 rearend. I wouldn't be afraid to install a 3.54 rearend in mine. Yes, you can install and 8BA with some extra work. These trucks have been overlooked by many for decades but they drive and ride much better than the earlier pickups. I'll admit the styling on the earlier (1932-1935) pickups is better.

04-12-2024, 10:04 AM	#10
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,951	Re: Swapping Engines Seth is correct. Stick with the stock engine because everything fits as it should without any hassles. Installing an 8BA requires lots of modifications that snowball into a "project" requiring changes that you weren't aware of like fan pulley and water pump changes. You need 8RT water pumps and the fan blade clearance problem must be solved. In the photo above you can see the custom made adjustable alum. fan pulley and alternator bracket. plus, the Y-bracket fender brace must be removed. I made "angle iron" supports bolted to frame as shown in Post #6 above. Last edited by 19Fordy; 04-12-2024 at 02:32 PM.

04-12-2024, 10:40 AM	#11
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,864	Re: Swapping Engines In my new stock engine build up i use the late 8ba pumps on both the early and late blocks. I also use the alet ylinder heads (EAB) An 12V Altinator. I install a drivers side water pump pulley on the drivers side pump. I cinvert a SBC Harmonic bakancer to the Ford crank and run the alt and water pumps with oNE narrow belt/ I also eliminate the fuel pump The car has to have an intank fuel pump and an electric fan The finished product is an engine with enough power to cruise a 3500 lb car at 64mph with excellent fuel economy . With a spare starter in the trunk, you can go any place in the USA and always have the ability to keep it running. The cost of building the engine is very low depending how a good a scroger you are/ You can use a stock carb and distributor. But the problem here is esthetics, it isn't pretty. But still running after 100K miles. Gramps

04-13-2024, 10:22 AM	#13
NoviceLou Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2024 Posts: 3	Re: Swapping Engines To all my responders- thanks again. I'll let you know the outcome. My time table may be a little lengthy since I'm just about down to the chassis frame but need to de-grease it, get the rust sandblasted, inspected, primed, etc before starting the rebuild. Finding this forum has been a catalyst to resuming this rebuild started several years ago.