The Ford Barn

tpepin · 01-05-2023, 08:03 PM

Looking for some advice on aligning the doors. I have read all the posts and understand shimming the cowl just forward of the A pillar. As you can see from the pics I need to rebuild the one bracket. It seems as though the canvas top is very tight do the ever shrink pulling the cowl rearward? I’m thinking of using a porta power to push the header above the windshield from the rear floor to see if I can get it to move. I have also checked the frame and it’s straight.

Dick Carne · 01-05-2023, 10:25 PM

I would be reluctant to use any extreme force on the car once it has been assembled. From the pictures you provided, I'm wondering if perhaps the upper door hinge has been bent forward at some point. It would seem to me that a slight bend toward the rear might provide you with a cleaner and more even line on the front upper portion of the door. As for any alignment issues at the rear of the door, this would seem to be more a function of the rubber body shims on the frame. In order to raise the door in the back, you may need to place additional shims under the "A pillar" or perhaps remove a shim from the very front of the cowl in order to raise the level of the rear portion of the front door. When I have aligned doors in the past, I have always started at the front and worked my way back. Just my thoughts, but I hope that this may at least give you some ideas. Good luck going forward.

Oldbluoval · 01-06-2023, 06:22 AM

Dicks advice is good. On a closed car, I’ve not seen canvas topping moving the body to any degree. Think twice, maybe three times, before using the porta power. Imho

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 01-06-2023, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpepin

Looking for some advice on aligning the doors. I have read all the posts and understand shimming the cowl just forward of the A pillar. As you can see from the pics I need to rebuild the one bracket. It seems as though the canvas top is very tight do the ever shrink pulling the cowl rearward? I’m thinking of using a porta power to push the header above the windshield from the rear floor to see if I can get it to move. I have also checked the frame and it’s straight.

To begin with, since this is your first post here, welcome to Fordbarn.

My first question is how do you know the frame is straight?

Next question is how do you know the wood sills and upper rails are not misaligned due to deteriorated wood? I am suspecting that is where the issue is. I'm sure you already know this but "shimming the cowl" is often the code word for 'I'm going to bandaid the real problem!'. If the Roof Side Rail and the Roof Side Rail Inner are deteriorated where they meet the Front Roof Rail, it can cause exactly what you are describing. Probably not what you wanted to hear.

Bob Bidonde · 01-06-2023, 07:34 AM

The RH door on my Victoria has a small amount of misalignment at the top corner when the belt moldings align, so I let that misalignment alone. I have seen this condition on other Victorias. Also I am living with the uneven vertical gap at the top front edge of the LH door. Keep in mind you will have to get the hood's vertical edges parallel to the cowl band, so don't go wild shimming and forcing the body. It's a trial and error task to average-out body misalignments.

jw hash · 01-06-2023, 09:59 AM

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the right-side sill is in bad shape the lower part of the cowl is gone. DO NOT USE a porta power. you will rip the body into. the cowl needs to be rebuilt to make it right.

tpepin · 01-06-2023, 10:13 AM

Thanks for the replies and info. Yes this is my first venture into model a’s I found this on market place and liked the body style so I bought it with the intention of hot rodding it so I didn’t look at it as close as I would have for a restoration. Well the more I looked at it and spent time researching I have decided to restore it. I removed all the interior so far with the exception of the headliner. It had a old restoration years ago. The wood all looks to be in good shape but am missing 2 verticals below the rear window. Only maybe 4-6 body bolts with nuts on them. Looking at this it appears someone along the way had this issue and tried several remedies like blocks under the a pillar. The hinges do appear to be bent upward. Does the windshield header separate from the windshield posts? I guess I just need to start at the cowl and work my way back and see where this all leads lol.. thanks for all your insight. today I will recheck the frame and probably start pealing back the top and removing the head liner. Push comes to shove I’ll take off the body and start from the bottom up I have been there before.

Ed in Maine · 01-06-2023, 03:52 PM

Welcome to the Ford Barn. You are off to a good start, having picked a lower production volume, nice looking body design. Glad to hear you want to restore this car. It is too special to hot rod it. Unfortunately you have a lot of work ahead of you. You have to remove the body and get down to the frame. Get that straightened out and then move on to the wooden subframe (the wood that sits on top of the metal frame). This subframe is part of the body and it must be solid if you are to have any chance of aligning the doors. It looks like you have very good original wood pieces to make the new subframe. Once you have the subframe rebuilt, you mount the cowl and then with shims you align the hood. Next comes mounting the body on to the wooden subframe. This is the most critical step. You are mounting the body and welding it to the cowl while aligning the doors (getting good door gap all around). My Victoria has poor door gap and there is nothing that can be done at this point short of another complete restoration. The body was set in position on the subframe too far back from the cowl. The gap behind the doors is too wide. Take your time, enjoy the project, always do good work. Eventually it will be complete and you can have great pride in your work.

Join the Victoria Association for support and technical information. Good luck, Ed

tpepin · 01-06-2023, 09:22 PM

Thanks for the words of encouragement. The wood is in good condition and I will be removing the body from the frame next week. Looking at it at length today it looks like the bottom of cowl is to far forward on the frame and needs to be pulled back and should bring the door closer to where it should be. The right side lower cowl bracket will need to be replaced or repaired while it’s off the frame.

01-05-2023, 10:25 PM	#2
Dick Carne Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fayetteville, Georgia Posts: 467	Re: 1931 ford Victoria door alignment I would be reluctant to use any extreme force on the car once it has been assembled. From the pictures you provided, I'm wondering if perhaps the upper door hinge has been bent forward at some point. It would seem to me that a slight bend toward the rear might provide you with a cleaner and more even line on the front upper portion of the door. As for any alignment issues at the rear of the door, this would seem to be more a function of the rubber body shims on the frame. In order to raise the door in the back, you may need to place additional shims under the "A pillar" or perhaps remove a shim from the very front of the cowl in order to raise the level of the rear portion of the front door. When I have aligned doors in the past, I have always started at the front and worked my way back. Just my thoughts, but I hope that this may at least give you some ideas. Good luck going forward.

01-06-2023, 06:22 AM	#3
Oldbluoval Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Signal Mtn, TN (SE TN) Posts: 2,372	Re: 1931 ford Victoria door alignment Dicks advice is good. On a closed car, I’ve not seen canvas topping moving the body to any degree. Think twice, maybe three times, before using the porta power. Imho

01-06-2023, 09:59 AM	#6
jw hash Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn Washington Posts: 2,552	Re: 1931 ford Victoria door alignment Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) the right-side sill is in bad shape the lower part of the cowl is gone. DO NOT USE a porta power. you will rip the body into. the cowl needs to be rebuilt to make it right.

01-06-2023, 10:13 AM	#7
tpepin Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2022 Posts: 3	Re: 1931 ford Victoria door alignment Thanks for the replies and info. Yes this is my first venture into model a’s I found this on market place and liked the body style so I bought it with the intention of hot rodding it so I didn’t look at it as close as I would have for a restoration. Well the more I looked at it and spent time researching I have decided to restore it. I removed all the interior so far with the exception of the headliner. It had a old restoration years ago. The wood all looks to be in good shape but am missing 2 verticals below the rear window. Only maybe 4-6 body bolts with nuts on them. Looking at this it appears someone along the way had this issue and tried several remedies like blocks under the a pillar. The hinges do appear to be bent upward. Does the windshield header separate from the windshield posts? I guess I just need to start at the cowl and work my way back and see where this all leads lol.. thanks for all your insight. today I will recheck the frame and probably start pealing back the top and removing the head liner. Push comes to shove I’ll take off the body and start from the bottom up I have been there before.

01-06-2023, 03:52 PM	#8
Ed in Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cty., ME or Flagler Cty., FL Posts: 1,106	Re: 1931 ford Victoria door alignment Welcome to the Ford Barn. You are off to a good start, having picked a lower production volume, nice looking body design. Glad to hear you want to restore this car. It is too special to hot rod it. Unfortunately you have a lot of work ahead of you. You have to remove the body and get down to the frame. Get that straightened out and then move on to the wooden subframe (the wood that sits on top of the metal frame). This subframe is part of the body and it must be solid if you are to have any chance of aligning the doors. It looks like you have very good original wood pieces to make the new subframe. Once you have the subframe rebuilt, you mount the cowl and then with shims you align the hood. Next comes mounting the body on to the wooden subframe. This is the most critical step. You are mounting the body and welding it to the cowl while aligning the doors (getting good door gap all around). My Victoria has poor door gap and there is nothing that can be done at this point short of another complete restoration. The body was set in position on the subframe too far back from the cowl. The gap behind the doors is too wide. Take your time, enjoy the project, always do good work. Eventually it will be complete and you can have great pride in your work. Join the Victoria Association for support and technical information. Good luck, Ed

01-06-2023, 09:22 PM	#9
tpepin Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2022 Posts: 3	Re: 1931 ford Victoria door alignment Thanks for the words of encouragement. The wood is in good condition and I will be removing the body from the frame next week. Looking at it at length today it looks like the bottom of cowl is to far forward on the frame and needs to be pulled back and should bring the door closer to where it should be. The right side lower cowl bracket will need to be replaced or repaired while it’s off the frame.