Engine Number

[rfitzpatrick]

What was the reason/purpose for sanding off an engine numbers in the first place?

[Phil Brown]

Engine purchased from a rebuilder that came from some other car. When installed in your car the factory #’s do not match your paperwork or registration

[nkaminar]

A lot depends on which state you live in. I read on the forum that at least one state makes it illegal to change the serial number of an engine. Other states are fussy and even original stamping may be rejected because the inspector is not familiar with Model A stamps. When I bought my car here in North Carolina, the seller knew the officer at the DMV so it went through without any problem, even with a different number on the engine than what is on the title.

One technique that people use is to peen the surface with the pneumatic tool that is used to remove heavy rust. It has a number of pins. The surface then resembles a cast surface. Original or reproduction stamps can then be used to re stamp the serial number.

Sometimes the garage that installed a used engine would grind off the old serial number and then stamp the serial number of the car in it's place, or a non Ford serial number. These re stampings can get rejected by some DMV inspectors.

The rejection by DMV offices is an effort to eliminate registration and title transfer of stolen cars. Many years ago, when Model A's were just an old car, getting your car registered was easy. Now that antique cars are worth much more it has gotten more difficult and will only become more of a problem.

[Phil Brown]

There's something that California still has going for it, if you need the "vin" number verification they want to see the frame number. They could care less about any numbers on the engine

[ronn]

I take a slightly diff view then nk on the subject. Many dmv people have aged out and often the newbies dont know their arse from their........... well you understand.


so many of these guys, cops included, have no idea what they re looking at . If you spin a tale, most smile and enjoy the yarn.

[ModelA29]

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Originally Posted by Phil Brown

There's something that California still has going for it, if you need the "vin" number verification they want to see the frame number. They could care less about any numbers on the engine

Which is 100% lame since the frame number is hidden when the body is on (how would they check it on a car they stopped if you reported your car stolen). CA won't use the engine number and puts one of their assigned ID tags on. They won't even add your engine number to the space on the title for "engine number" since they say it's for motorcycles only. CHP won't verify an incomplete car meaning no body no verification. DMV and CHP are stymied when anything shows up pre 68 when the feds required standardized VINs and locations. I talked to a guy last week who had hired a service to get his Model A registered. He said he was having problems because a 1960s VW was registered with the same VIN. Dumb runs deep in CA........

I had a Studebaker that had been registered by the engine number when new in the 50s. That engine was long gone. Fortunately the Studebaker records still exist showing which engine went in which body. I was able to take a copy of the card to DMV and they changed the VIN from what had been on the engine to the body number.

[Ayers1]

Luckily so far where I live in Va, the numbers aren't even checked. I guess they assume you're smart enough to confirm your self or you risk never being able to get rid of it if someone more particular tries to buy it.
They do check the numbers on the title to confirm it's not stolen.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Phil Brown

There's something that California still has going for it, if you need the "vin" number verification they want to see the frame number. They could care less about any numbers on the engine

My Town Sedan is registered with the engine numbers... in California. I doubt it is the same as my frame number but I can't say for sure.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

My Town Sedan is registered with the engine numbers... in California. I doubt it is the same as my frame number but I can't say for sure.

Your car has probably been registered since before the early 70s in CA. Today if you register one built from parts or brought from out of state you'll probably get a new tag from the state.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

Your car has probably been registered since before the early 70s in CA. Today if you register one built from parts or brought from out of state you'll probably get a new tag from the state.

My '30 came in from Wisconsin in 2017. Apparently the Wisconsin title had the engine number listed as the VIN, and the person from California DMV verified that number and issued a California title based upon that verification. When I removed the body I found that the number on the title is in fact the frame number, the engine was a restamp on a rebuild that lacked asterisks before and after the number. I doubt that DMV noticed the lack of asterisks that would indicate it was a non-original engine.

Regardless, title matches the frame matches the engine.

Previous owner (that I bought the car from) made a YouTube video of his adventure getting the car registered in California. He claimed in his description of the video, and in his ad, that "...has the original engine to frame". I think he didn't notice the restamped number.

[David in San Antonio]

How does the Burtz block folks do it? What number do those engines come with ?
I read that changing a VIN is a felony. I don’t know if that would be interpreted as extending to the engine number, though. The Wretched Roadster is currently getting a replacement block and I’m curious what the engine rebuilder will do about the serial number.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

Your car has probably been registered since before the early 70s in CA. Today if you register one built from parts or brought from out of state you'll probably get a new tag from the state.

I bet a huge runaround now days too.

[Herb Concord Ca]

Best to have rebuilder stamp the new block with the number on your title.

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Originally Posted by David in San Antonio

How does the Burtz block folks do it? What number do those engines come with ?
I read that changing a VIN is a felony. I don’t know if that would be interpreted as extending to the engine number, though. The Wretched Roadster is currently getting a replacement block and I’m curious what the engine rebuilder will do about the serial number.

The serial number boss on the new Burtz engine is not stamped. This allows the purchaser to use original font stamps that pass blue point judging and any DMV.

[Phil Brown]

Changing a vin number is something that you do not want to be involved with
Adding an "extra" set of numbers somewhere is not a problem
In Calif, it's all the frame numbers when it comes to the legal end of it with registration. You might find a DMV guy who will just look at the engine number and be fine with it , but if that frame number is different from your paperwork things could get difficult for you
Your state may be different

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by David in San Antonio

How does the Burtz block folks do it? What number do those engines come with ?
I read that changing a VIN is a felony. I don’t know if that would be interpreted as extending to the engine number, though. The Wretched Roadster is currently getting a replacement block and I’m curious what the engine rebuilder will do about the serial number.

The way I look at it, the owner is stamping a piece of metal. How that is interpreted is a different issue. It’s no different than adding a stamped number on the underside of a frame member, where it would be visible. If that number happens to match the number on the title, so much the better. You are not changing a VIN, you are adding a number where it is visible.

I would suggest that you ask the rebuilder to grind off the old number (which is simply that - an embossed number on a metal part) and restamp another number. That the number happens to appear on your title isn’t changing anything. If you are concerned about it you can find some good stamps at restostamps.com. I think I’d avoid claiming that as an original, numbers-matching engine, though.

[Herb Concord Ca]

When I had my '31 Roadster P/U inspected my CHP at DVM's request to confirm the 31 yom plates were to be installed on my 31 RPU. The CHP guy looked at the engine number (that matched the title) and put one of their blue tags on the door jam, showing the engine / title number!