Regular or Premium gas?

[Old Henry]

If you're still wondering, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPPkPAbzwbU

I can't believe that the head of the Canadian petroleum industry doesn't understand what premium gas is for.

If you really want to spend more money for better gas, buy Top Tier gasoline http://www.toptiergas.com/.

Not only can our old cars with stock engines run as well on the lowest octane available as on any higher octane, the higher you drive in elevation, the even lower octane you can burn. That goes for new cars too. If you're driving a new car that requires 89 octane at sea level, it will do just as well on 87 octane at 5,000 feet elevation.

Just remember, higher octane is only for higher compression engines to prevent premature detonation. It has no other benefits. It is not more efficient, not more powerful, not cleaner, and, in fact, is worse for the environment when run in a lower compression engine like ours.

[51 MERC-CT]

Unfortunately there are those who will never see the light.
Almost fell over at the $1.33 price for gas until I realized this was done in Canada and was per liter.

[Scott H in Wheaton]

I think a lot of the average driver believing in higher octane comes from the old "racing Gas" at 100 octane or better.
I mean, if a race car uses it to go faster it must make my car go faster too, right?
They don't understand the race engine needs the higher octane because of the 12:1 or 13:1 compression ratios.

[deuce_roadster]

Anything they sell us now is "swamp water" compared to when there was lead in the gas. What they sell as now as premium gas is lower in octane then regular used to be.

[Fibber Mcgee]

Are you telling me none of these work either?http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...hall-of-shame/

[Uncle Bob]

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When will we see a "consumer protection" program to "protect" us from devious, self anointed, "consumer protection groups". To reasonably well informed folks a good argument could be made that using a relatively low performance vehicle to "prove" their thesis is itself deceptive.

While the broad message is accurate, i.e. don't buy more octane than the minimum your vehicle requires, the subtle, or not so subtle, swipes at the petroleum industry are annoying. No, I'm not advocating the petroleum industry are saints, but they're also not the devils that popular mythology persists in peddling.

Much could be said about the content of that vid, but two things I think are most salient. The yoga chick says she "thinks/believes" it's better, therefore it is........in her mind. That's pretty normal human behavior. Marketing to that belief makes perfect sense, and no coercion is employed. Alternately, the crewcut expert openly contradicted himself when on the one hand he says the lower octane fuel is the only thing necessary, but then says if he were to use his Corvette in a high performance application he would use the premium fuel. Lost in that subtle exchange was the info that some more modern engines do in fact have systems that can change engine tune, and thus performance, to accommodate/require premium fuel. While that info is in the commentary it doesn't get the same emphasis as the negativity that is more pervasive throughout the piece. (end of rant)

Edit; to be fair to the crew cut expert, he may have made sufficient qualifying statements in his actual commentary, but the editors of the vid might have dropped that part as it didn't fit their agenda.

[30-9]

Doesn't 93 octaine have less or no ethinol?

[mrtexas]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Anything they sell us now is "swamp water" compared to when there was lead in the gas. What they sell as now as premium gas is lower in octane then regular used to be.

Not necessarily true. The old leaded premium was 100 research octane. 93 super today is (87 motor + 99 research)/2. When unleaded gasoline came out they added the motor octane method to simulate city driving. High research octane doesn't guarantee performance in the city. Remember back in the day that some gasoline would cause cars to "run on" after the key was turned off? Minimum motor octane cures that as well.

[mrtexas]

Originally Posted by 30-9

Doesn't 93 octaine have less or no ethinol?

It all has 10% ethanol thanks to the dictators in Washington DC.

[mrtexas]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

If you're still wondering, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPPkPAbzwbU

I can't believe that the head of the Canadian petroleum industry doesn't understand what premium gas is for.

If you really want to spend more money for better gas, buy Top Tier gasoline http://www.toptiergas.com/.

Not only can our old cars with stock engines run as well on the lowest octane available as on any higher octane, the higher you drive in elevation, the even lower octane you can burn. That goes for new cars too. If you're driving a new car that requires 89 octane at sea level, it will do just as well on 87 octane at 5,000 feet elevation.

Just remember, higher octane is only for higher compression engines to prevent premature detonation. It has no other benefits. It is not more efficient, not more powerful, not cleaner, and, in fact, is worse for the environment when run in a lower compression engine like ours.

Super sales make a lot of money for oil companies. 99% of cars don't require it.

[tubman]

In Minnesota, we have easy access to no-alcohol premium, thanks to the MSRA and the boating industry. I use it exclusively in my old cars, not particularly for the higher octane rating, but because, in my experience, it has a longer "shelf-life" than "oxygenated" fuel. If for some reason you have a vehicle or engine that doesn't get used for a year or three, you will be glad you had a full tank of non-oxygenated fuel.

[JAKEFORD]

I have an 2010 Nissan Altima with the 2.5L engine. With 87 octane I get about 29mpg and with 93 octane get about 34mpg. I attribute the difference to the knock sensor. It doesn't cut back the timing with the higher octane gas.

Last winter I did a bit of a study and found the more expensive gas on this car at least was more economical. But all gas stations are not the same and quickly found the ones that were selling bad hi octane gas. So settled on the best low octane gas in nearby stations.

[Alaska Jim]

no ethanol no mater what the octane rating here in Alaska, or it would be marked on the pump.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

...I can't believe that the head of the Canadian petroleum industry doesn't understand what premium gas is for...

That guy is a paid mouthpiece for the industry. He understands quite well what premium gas is for: Primarily to boost the profit margins of petroleum companies, while giving the consumers the ability to choose their poison.

What he said about detergents may have some truth in it. Premium may in fact have more detergents than are required to keep the engines clean, as the very presence of more detergents may have the effect of raising octane. Remember, high octane = slower burn, so any additive that interferes with the burn will slow the burn. The primary reason for lead in the old days was to raise the octane in that manner. Today, the presence of alcohol serves that purpose via the water content in alcohol.

In the video, the most ridiculous part was asking minimum wage pump jockeys which gas was better! That was pure theater, and grossly unfair to those poor guys!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by mrtexas

Not necessarily true. The old leaded premium was 100 research octane. 93 super today is (87 motor + 99 research)/2. When unleaded gasoline came out they added the motor octane method to simulate city driving. High research octane doesn't guarantee performance in the city. Remember back in the day that some gasoline would cause cars to "run on" after the key was turned off? Minimum motor octane cures that as well.

Engines did not "run on" because of the fuel octane level. They "ran on" because the valve ports were so full of carbon which was subsequently heated when driving. Shut the engine off and that hot build up of carbon would ignite the furl vapors.
I recall all too well doing valve jobs back in the early 80's... most heads took a LOT of efforts just to get all of the built up carbon chipped away enough so I could sand blast the heads prior to machining. that stuff (carbon build up) was HARD and very difficult to remove.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by JAKEFORD

I have an 2010 Nissan Altima with the 2.5L engine. With 87 octane I get about 29mpg and with 93 octane get about 34mpg. I attribute the difference to the knock sensor. It doesn't cut back the timing with the higher octane gas.

Last winter I did a bit of a study and found the more expensive gas on this car at least was more economical. But all gas stations are not the same and quickly found the ones that were selling bad hi octane gas. So settled on the best low octane gas in nearby stations.

Our 2014 Mercedes actually gets about 2 - 3 mpg more with lower octane (87) even though the car is supposed to utilize premium (93+). The service manager at Benz had advised me to use the lower octane as apparently, this was the typical result of doing so.

[dwaynec]

I use 91 octane in my '37 so that I can get non-ethanol gasoline. If I could find 87 octane non-ethanol gas I would use that but it seems to be getting to the nature of "unobtainium".

[sidevalve8ba]

Originally Posted by dwaynec

I use 91 octane in my '37 so that I can get non-ethanol gasoline. If I could find 87 octane non-ethanol gas I would use that but it seems to be getting to the nature of "unobtainium".

Try the website pure-gas.org. I just checked it and there are several places in Davenport that offer 87 octane non-ethanol.

[dwaynec]

Thanks. I will give it a shot.

[FortyNiner]

Originally Posted by mrtexas

It all has 10% ethanol thanks to the dictators in Washington DC.

The vote was in DC but the reason was in Iowa's early straw poll, caucus, and primary schedules.

[moonraker]

Well, I feel lucky - here in Russia we can still buy 80 octane. Not at every gas station but not difficult to find.

[oldandtired]

I travel a lot both on local trips of 60-70 miles round trip to trips of between 6000 and 11000 miles. The fuel they sell in the small town where I live does not seem to be of the same quality as what I purchase even 30 to 50 miles away. Using the same octane fuel,87-octane, driving the same relatively local roads, just buying the gasoline elsewhere results in a 3-4 mpg difference. Different required blends for different states or geographical areas are not the reason and there are no altitude differences or the like.I would love for the State to test the local gasoline, but they only inspect the pumps for output. Our fuel is also more expensive than the gasoline in larger cities nearby, but that is a different issue, but it sure seems like I pay more for poorer quality fuel.
The differences around the country using the same vehicle, buying whatever the lowest grade regular is (typically 85-87 octane) are startling. At the same speed, 70mph, I get around 23mpg locally using the local fuel. On the 6900 mile trip I took this Summer, the vehicle averaged over 27 mpg for the trip and now is back to around 23mpg at 70mph.

[keith oh]

Here in central Ohio, at the interstate stations, 87 oct. is less than $2 today.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by keith oh

Here in central Ohio, at the interstate stations, 87 oct. is less than $2 today.

$3.20 here

[russcc]

You all may remember Bod Dole, senator from Kansas, in the corn belt. When Bob was confronted with the fact that ethanol was no good for anything, he agreed, but said "we have to take care of the farmers". Based on political BS vs sound science.

[Ross F-1]

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Originally Posted by Old Henry

...
Not only can our old cars with stock engines run as well on the lowest octane available as on any higher octane, the higher you drive in elevation, the even lower octane you can burn. ....

Not like there's a choice; as soon as you get above about 3,000 ft, the gas companies reduce the octane for you! Around here (5300+) I haven't seen 91 octane in 30 years, even before ethanol. Regular is 85.

On a trip thru Iowa earlier this year, I gassed up at many places that had three pumps; Regular, Super, and Premium. The Regular and Super had the exact same octane ratings, but the Super cost 30 cents/gal more. Most places couldn't tell me what the difference in the gas was, but I finally found a gearhead who told me the Super had no ethanol.

[sidevalve8ba]

On a trip to Colorado this summer I encountered 85 octane regular for the first time, mid-grade was 87 octane. I was in my late model DD and being curious I dug out the owners manual. It said in no uncertain terms to NOT use any gas less than 87 octane even though lower octane might be encountered at higher altitudes. This car is a Ford product.

Here in Virginia regular is 87 octane, mid-grade is 89 and premium is 93 octane for what that is worth.

[Old Henry]

Octane facts and myths: http://mn.gov/commerce/weights-and-m...ctaneFacts.pdf

From Popular Mechanics here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...a5308/4345737/

Q: I live in Arizona and use 87-octane regular. In Utah, Idaho and Nevada, stations were selling 85-octane as regular gas. This forced me to pay more for midgrade 87-octane. Is this the latest petroleum-industry scam to get more of our money? Will my car run okay on this bogus 85-octane regular?

A: Octane is the ability of a fuel to resist knock, and high-compression engines tend to knock more. The obverse of that is that lower-compression engines can run on lower-octane gas. Air is thinner the higher above sea level you go. Less air going into the cylinders means less pressure at top dead center when things go bang. It's a lot like lowering the compression ratio in the engine, reducing the need for high octane. Cars will run just fine on lower-octane fuel when they're well above sea level--and all of those states are. Hopefully, by the time you get back down to denser air, you've burned off most of the low-octane stuff, and can refill the tank with higher-grade fuel.

[Dodge]

I am going at this from the Model T side of things. I used 87 octane for years with no
problems, then when they started putting alcohol in the gas it would start on one crank
from dead cold. But when you stopped and the engine heat soaked it would not start
unless you dumped ice water on the intake manifold. This is a hand crank car.
I called BP who owns ARCO (the gas I was using) and told him my problem.
He told me the older cars need to crank a little longer on the new gas when warm.
I told him I was the cranker and getting tired of it.
He suggested going to mid range 89 octane and I have't had the problem since.
So something is going on.
Dodge

[Karl]

In New Zealand you get two choices regular which is 91 and Premuim which is 96 to 98 depending on where you buy it. I know I get better milage in my modern with Premuim but as it costs more I'm not sure its cost effective to use . Gas is expensive here 1 litre of regular 91 is about NZ $2 which equates to NZ $9 per US Gallon or US$5.68 per gallon at todays exchange rate .Karl

[Mart]

I think the numbering used in NZ may be the same as in the UK. We have 95 as regular and 98 as premium. But the system is not the same as the numbering in the USA. The fuels are roughly equivalent, but our numbering comes out higher.

Mart.