early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?

[highbeams]

early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?

Has this been considered by anyone or any company to make?

Just simply a question. Thank You -

[J Franklin]

Why?

[cadillac512]

I doubt it. I think sales numbers might be disappointing.

[19Fordy]

highbeams: We don't need more restrictions and regulations.

[Kube]

On the other hand, IF more restrictions are placed on our old Fords, a catalytic converter may be the easiest and most reasonable method to get within whatever standards may be applied.
A converter typically does the most to reduce emissions of any of the numerous systems on our modern vehicles.
The problem I see applying one to our old Ford is not the fit. Heck, any "generic" converter could be made to fit rather easily. Nope, what I see as the major issue is how long the life of the converter would be.
Our Fords are not very efficient and as such no doubt pump out a lot of "yech" through the exhaust. That "yech" would quickly clog a converter.
Ever near a car that smelled like rotten eggs? That's too much unburned fuel getting to the converter. That in itself is a clear sign that particular vehicle is running poorly. Subsequently, the converter "fills up" and fails prematurely.

[fordor41]

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better insulate a bunch as cat cons generate a ton if heat.

[Joe B.]

...

[Karl Wescott]

Originally Posted by Kube

On the other hand, IF more restrictions are placed on our old Fords, a catalytic converter may be the easiest and most reasonable method to get within whatever standards may be applied.
A converter typically does the most to reduce emissions of any of the numerous systems on our modern vehicles.
The problem I see applying one to our old Ford is not the fit. Heck, any "generic" converter could be made to fit rather easily. Nope, what I see as the major issue is how long the life of the converter would be.
Our Fords are not very efficient and as such no doubt pump out a lot of "yech" through the exhaust. That "yech" would quickly clog a converter.
Ever near a car that smelled like rotten eggs? That's too much unburned fuel getting to the converter. That in itself is a clear sign that particular vehicle is running poorly. Subsequently, the converter "fills up" and fails prematurely.

The catalytic converter works by enabling hydrocarbons to burn at a dramatically lower mixture (air + fuel) than what they would normally burn at. They are often some alloy of platinum in a ceramic (high temperature tolerant) matrix. "Flooding" does not seem to damage converters, however it will take time to burn out excess fuel, which causes heat, which must be dissipated safely. The converter also has to reach a certain temperature (400F?) to begin operating.



What will KILL a converter is heavy metals... especially lead.


The "rotten egg" smell. Yes to incomplete combustion, but a required component to get the smell is sulfur. Various sulfur oxides STINK! And contribute to ground level ozone. This is one of the reasons that regulators (EPA) are demanding "low sulfur" fuels. Ironically this is why we import oil from the middle east (naturally low sulfur) and export oil from Alaska to Asia (naturally high sulfur, and lower regulatory limits).



IIRC from the discussions when EPA rules started to come out that stock flatheads could be tuned to run quite clean. Compared to 60's OHV the flatheads relatively long stroke to small bore allows extra burn time for a more complete combustion of hydrocarbons, and relatively low compression reduces the formation of nitrous oxides (nitrogen is ~80% of air).

[ford38v8]

Thank you Karl, excellent info.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Karl Wescott

The catalytic converter works by enabling hydrocarbons to burn at a dramatically lower mixture (air + fuel) than what they would normally burn at. They are often some alloy of platinum in a ceramic (high temperature tolerant) matrix. "Flooding" does not seem to damage converters, however it will take time to burn out excess fuel, which causes heat, which must be dissipated safely. The converter also has to reach a certain temperature (400F?) to begin operating.



What will KILL a converter is heavy metals... especially lead.


The "rotten egg" smell. Yes to incomplete combustion, but a required component to get the smell is sulfur. Various sulfur oxides STINK! And contribute to ground level ozone. This is one of the reasons that regulators (EPA) are demanding "low sulfur" fuels. Ironically this is why we import oil from the middle east (naturally low sulfur) and export oil from Alaska to Asia (naturally high sulfur, and lower regulatory limits).



IIRC from the discussions when EPA rules started to come out that stock flatheads could be tuned to run quite clean. Compared to 60's OHV the flatheads relatively long stroke to small bore allows extra burn time for a more complete combustion of hydrocarbons, and relatively low compression reduces the formation of nitrous oxides (nitrogen is ~80% of air).

Thank you Karl!

[flathead4rd]

"If it ain't broke don't fix it". Why would you want to give the government another reason to meddle into our lives and our love of old cars.

[19Fordy]

Remember what President Reagan said: "I'm from the government and here to help you."

[woodiewagon46]

I hope no one from the NYS DMV is reading this.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by woodiewagon46

I hope no one from the NYS DMV is reading this.

Not to worry, it's their break time.

[Lawrie]

I ran our 33 through an emissions tester that was set up on the uphill exit ramp from the motor way a few years back, I went back and spoke to the guy who was setting it up after I had driven through,, he asked what sort of anti pollution stuff was on the 33 engine,I replied none, he response was,:thats surprisingly clean :
Lawrie

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

I ran our 33 through an emissions tester that was set up on the uphill exit ramp from the motor way a few years back, I went back and spoke to the guy who was setting it up after I had driven through,, he asked what sort of anti pollution stuff was on the 33 engine, I replied none, he response was,:thats surprisingly clean :
Lawrie

I had a similar experience with the 8BA engine in my old '36. The engine was a fresh 276 Merc with a Holley 390 and an MSD "Ready to Run" ignition. When I took it to "Back to the Fifties" in the middle nineties, the State of Minnesota had a voluntary pollution test set up right in the event. Out of curiosity, I ran the car through and they told me it would have passed the then current Minnesota pollution standards as it was.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by tubman

I had a similar experience with the 8BA engine in my old '36. The engine was a fresh 276 Merc with a Holley 390 and an MSD "Ready to Run" ignition. When I took it to "Back to the Fifties" in the middle nineties, the State of Minnesota had a voluntary pollution test set up right in the event. Out of curiosity, I ran the car through and they told me it would have passed the then current Minnesota pollution standards as it was.

That's both a surprise and very interesting. Thanks for sharing

[Ray in La Mesa]

Ran my '28 "A" through the smog machine at my Porsche mechanic's place, was a little rich so closed down the GAV on the dash & it came in legal. He was amazed I could adjust the carburetor from the drive's seat!

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

I ran our 33 through an emissions tester that was set up on the uphill exit ramp from the motor way a few years back, I went back and spoke to the guy who was setting it up after I had driven through,, he asked what sort of anti pollution stuff was on the 33 engine,I replied none, he response was,:thats surprisingly clean :
Lawrie

Originally Posted by tubman

I had a similar experience with the 8BA engine in my old '36. The engine was a fresh 276 Merc with a Holley 390 and an MSD "Ready to Run" ignition. When I took it to "Back to the Fifties" in the middle nineties, the State of Minnesota had a voluntary pollution test set up right in the event. Out of curiosity, I ran the car through and they told me it would have passed the then current Minnesota pollution standards as it was.

Originally Posted by Ray in La Mesa

Ran my '28 "A" through the smog machine at my Porsche mechanic's place, was a little rich so closed down the GAV on the dash & it came in legal. He was amazed I could adjust the carburetor from the drive's seat!

This all reminds me of the Old Street Cars/City Bus story out in Los Angeles. They got rid of all the "old" street cars (that where "electiric" and environmentally friendly as we are told today about EV's) for diesel burning Buses (Thank you GM). THEN, years later the "smog" became TOO great AND the buses weren't being utilized as they didn't serve the needs of the riders....SO they go to "clean" energy buses (electric among them) and propose NEW better service routes AND when "someone" checked these NEW routes against the "OLD" street car service, the old track system overlaid the NEW improved system "perfectly". SO.....what was gained in the end......SHOULD have left well enough alone!!!!!!

[tubman]

As I hear it, GM used bribery and shady politics to push municipalities to convert to buses after the war. Check out a guy named "Fred Ossanna" who was behind it in Minneapolis.