Seized motor/potentially overheated

[Rombo]

Hi all,

I have a Canadian 1928 AA, that I picked up a few years ago. Last summer I was having and issue with overheating, which I tracked down to a failing radiator. I replaced the radiator and rebuilt the carb at the same time. All was running well and the overheating issue was now a distant memory.

Last fall I was out for a quick tour into town and had been having a small starter issue this day. An gentleman stopped me in town and wanted to chat about his model collection for what seemed like an eternity (probably actually 2-3 mins), normally I would have turned the truck off and chatted for quite some time, however worried it may not start again and with engine temps rising quickly I mentioned my starter issue and he totally understood, wished me luck and I was on my way.

Unfortunately I only got 10 seconds down road and she stalled out. I could not get it fired back up initially. After letting it cook down for about 30 mins she fired up and ran well on the 4-5 km ride home. All seemed well until I tried to go out again the next day.

Started up no problem and while letting it warm up the engine died abruptly and was very very hard to turn over.

I have pulled the started and plugs, taken off the fan belt to eliminate a seized generator or water pump from the equation, poured atf and kerosene down the cylinders yet motor is still very tight.

A new motor is not really in the budget for me.

I am looking for recommendations on next diagnostic steps? Pull pan? Check rod bearings one by one? Pull head?

[Gene F]

The condensor (distributor) is heating up. Also, the keyed wire going into the base of the dist can be (screwed) in too far and do this too.

I don't quite understand why the thing is so tight. Is the starter motor itself dropping out?

[Rombo]

I haven't touched the distributor yet, but will pull and see if that helps.

The starter was giving issues of not engaging, but never binding while engaged.

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good Afternoon. You might consider removing the starter. It is easy for the spring to break...or one of the spring bolts to sheer or come out and get stuck between the fly wheel and the case. It could also be that the starter spring did not retract the starter gear and you are turning the starter motor...Maybe I'm not yet awake after my nap...but that is what I'm thinking...Ernie in Arizona

[Rombo]

That was my first thought and hope, the starter is out and on the bench.

I was able to spin the motor with a pry bar in the ring gear when I first removed the starter, but it is very tight and I worry about doing more damage at this point

[Gary WA]

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Originally Posted by Rombo

That was my first thought and hope, the starter is out and on the bench.

I was able to spin the motor with a pry bar in the ring gear when I first removed the starter, but it is very tight and I worry about doing more damage at this point

Make sure you have proper bolt length for the starter mounting. to long will hit flywheel.

[jg61hawk]

So to be clear...You have the plugs out...so zero compression, you have the belt off..so zero resistance from generator or water pump, you describe the engine as really tight...I assume you mean with the crank? Have you / can you crank the motor by hand?

My thought is you say it started fine the next morning...so I doubt any previous day's adventure is in play... (good right?). I suspect the exhaust is holding you up. How is the question. An internal collapse of the muffler, a pipe bent..."oh I did hear a noise"! My point is before you start ripping things apart...go slow...You are on the right track. Me? I would leave the plugs out, the belt off , hand crank her, and if she is really tight...(not in gear) break the exhaust pipe free at the manifold...easier than rebuilding the motor... These engines are basically lawn mower motors with side valves and a piston... BULLET PROOF tough as nails....I doubt a little idle and some heat destroyed it... Think and relax... If she keeps up her crap... I would push start the little lady and get her running... and see what she has to say then.... Nothing to lose at that point.

I just re read what you posted... I assume hard to turn over means a tight motor, not hard to start. The symptoms you describe of being hot and then starting after a cool down are classic condenser problems...Perhaps you can detail more of the situation....I see you are a new poster...Ford Barn is here is help!

[Rombo]

Thanks,

Yes the motor is tight, not trying to start it, just trying to find what is tight/binding.

I just pulled the generator and everything looked okay, not tight within the generator


Here is the current summary

- Plugs removed
- Starter removed
- Fan belt removed
- Generator removed
- Water pumps spins freely
- Generator (while out of the equation) spins freely

[ronn]

the main reason I run pure synthetic...........

[Rombo]

Originally Posted by ronn

the main reason I run pure synthetic...........

It's had full synthetic since the day I brought it home. I don't have a ton of history on the truck, so who knows what it has been subjected to, but odometer reads 4,600 miles, which I find more likely than 104,600 miles.

[ronn]

have never known an engine to lock up running synthetic..................

[Big hammer]

If the oil pump quit working it won’t matter if it’s synthetic oil or conventional oil ( sorry I said that )

[nkaminar]

Take the head off or look in the cylinders with a bore scope to see if there is scuffing on the walls. If the pistons get really hot they can expand and scuff. If that does not solve the issue, remove the engine from the car and put it on an engine stand and start taking it apart. Remove the rod bearings and try pushing the pistons out. (Remember to mark the rod bearings and pistons so they go back together in the same location.) Remove the main bearing caps to see if some Babbett go too hot and smeared. Check the oil pump for function and to see if it has a blocked screen.

[WHN]

Your on your way to driving yourself nuts.

I would find a good antique car mechanic (local club member) and let someone that knows these car take a look.

Your going to end up fixing something that’s most likely not broken or even rebuilding an engine that might not need it.

I know one thing for sure, your going to get a lot of advice on checking many different things.

[jg61hawk]

In the interest of saving face...I retract my idea to open the exhaust pipe...The plugs are out so all exhaust and compression pressure is relieved. Sorry...

[jeepguy1948]

I suggest that you put the transmission in 3rd gear and rock it back and forth (particularly, back) both the crank and the starter are going to attempt to rotate the motor clockwise/forward. If something is jammed around the clutch or flywheel rocking the car back will dislodge it. If there is no water in the oil than I seriously doubt that the motor had a sudden catastrophic failure. You have to really, really push a Model A motor well into the hot as snot, water boiling out of the radiator range (not what you describe at all) to cause it to seize up. I’m not saying it’s not possible but it doesn’t seem very likely. If the motor is tight in both directions than I have to agree that it’s time to pull the cylinder head.

[nkaminar]

Do you have the hand crank? Have you tried turning the engine over with the hand crank? What happens if someone pushes in the clutch while you try turning the engine over with the hand crank? That would rule out something wrong in the transmission.

For me, it is easier to take the engine out of the car to examine it. It does not have to be a compete overhaul but just fixing something that is wrong and checking things out. If you have a lift it may be easier for you to remove the head and pan to check things out. First thing to check is to see if the oil pump screen is clogged. As you do not know the history of the engine, that is a possibility. Another thing to do is to remove the cam gear covers and the valve chamber cover while the engine is still in the car to see if you can find something there. A bore scope may be the right tool to check for something rubbing against the flywheel.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Have you pulled the distributor yet? If that’s not it, then I’m thinking a motor tear down to see what is seizing.

[chap52]

Had a ring gear on a flathead V8 slip off the flywheel and did the same thing. Chap ???