NAPA Echlin FA 76 condensor issues

[russcc]

Just installed a new, NAPA Echlin condenser, FA76. Less than an hour on it since installed. Engine started and ran fine, but experienced some breaking up at about 30-40MPH. Today it just plain quit. My friend Ray Helgers in RI who sells NOS EV8 parts tested it for me. No good, right out of the box.
Ray had a simple condenser tester some electrical wizard made for him. Runs on 120V ac with some diodes and other unknown electronics in a small electrical box. Anyone have a schematic for something like that, I would like to build one. I ordered a IH 200 from NAPA for the short term, but will be getting a Vertex from Mason Racing Ignitions next to solve the crap, (made in Mexico), parts problem. Triple the money, but no aggravation.

[supereal]

Condenser testers are rarely accurate. To test them, the condenser must be heated so breakdown can be detected. A simple test is by setting an ohmmeter on the high range, then touching the probes across the condenser, then switching the probes. If the needle jumps, then falls back, the condenser is working. If the needle doesn't move, it is open. If it goes up and stays, the condenser is shorted. Many "off shore" condensers have been found to have a poorly attached terminal tab. Wiggle the terminal with the ohmmeter attached to be sure it is connected consistantly.

[B-O-B]

Echlin IH200 are made in Mexico.

[russcc]

This condenser tester rapidly loaded the condenser off & on to simulate the ignition charge-discharge process through switching diodes, and some other unknown electronics. The performance of the condenser could be easily seen in a light that displayed how it was functioning. At first the light flashed in sequence with the driven charge-discharge rate, then as it heated up, it slowed down, missed many cycles, and then rarely lit the light. Would love to know how to build one from a schematic.

[scooder]

Me too! Somebody gota have the skinny on this please.
Martin.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

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This is pretty common today . Lots of off shore cheap stuff and the standard condensor isnt used very much at all on todays production vehicles.

We used a delco condensor on our conversions ( use a napa today ) and bought them 12-24 at a time . I bought a box with 12 units in it and tested each one when they came in . There were only three that would pass inspection on our sun condensor tester. I called my parts guy and said these are terrible only three are any good. He said;Thats what your friend at the mag shop said last week.
They had sold them to my friend down the street and he sent them back! When i told him he called the parts store had them shipped to his shop and threw them in the dumpster!!!!
When i discuused this with the parts store he said : come on do you realize you two guys are the only two guys buying these old condensors !!!!!
I guess when you put it into perspective we are a small voice in a big world. Cant imagine anyone making much money selling condensors for old cars.
This made my friend so made that he spent a few thousand bucks having a special ( vertex) condensor made just for him. His first order was for 5000 units......

Oh well .....by the way Standard Motor Products now own Echlin and sometimes you may get echlin in the box and sometimes you may get the cheaper "Standard" product.....?????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????r

[woodiewagon46]

I don't know if you are a member of the V8 Ford club, but there was an article all about condensers in a recent issue. I'm sorry I don't have the issue because I pass my mag on to friends but if you know a member perhaps you can borrow it. Most of the stuff we get from offshore is junk.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Just for the sake of discussion each condensor used in ignition systems must pass three tests:

1-series resistance ........resistance to ground so as not to be a direct path to ground

2-capacity.........the storage capacity measured in microfarads normal .020 mfd to .036mfd......storage capacity prevents flow and burning of the points while the coil builds up.....prevents arcing at the contacts when open and close

3-leakage.........controlled rate of leakage to ground allowing the condensor to be a ground path but very controlled....leak too much leak = short no leakage =open typically

Just some more fuel for the condensor debacle.........

[sidevalve8ba]

Bubba,

I used to work in a parts store years ago. We sold Standard Ignition Products at that time and it was a very good product line. Have they "slipped" since then?

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by woodiewagon46

I don't know if you are a member of the V8 Ford club, but there was an article all about condensers in a recent issue. I'm sorry I don't have the issue because I pass my mag on to friends but if you know a member perhaps you can borrow it. Most of the stuff we get from offshore is junk.

I am a member and read the article two or three times , great article!!!!

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by sidevalve8ba

Bubba,

I used to work in a parts store years ago. We sold Standard Ignition Products at that time and it was a very good product line. Have they "slipped" since then?

Yes standard ( and others ) all have the good , bad and ugly product lines. In the world of high profits the ugly cheap stuff often takes control. Most ignition parts sellers have taken this approach .
However many of todays service facilitys want the cheaper product lines , based on public demand.......

[corvette8n]

So is their any condenser worth buying?

[rotorwrench]

I have purchased Standard Blue Streak ignition components for a long time and they have started to slip on quality. I have been in the habit of buying 2 or 3 at a time for the past 20 years due to tha poor pass rate but what are you going to do. If you run regular breaker battery ignition then you have to get condensers some place.

I got a kick out of that old test rig the guy had built in the EFV8 article. That is as good a test as any with budget parts. It either makes a good spark or it doesn't. I have one of the old Heathkit cap testers with the magic eye tube but I seldom use it. I just hook one up to my old Harley Davidson and see if it arcs the breaker points or runs rough at idle or high rpm. If it works good it is good.

[josh1331]

Hey Bubba, that distributor you built for my 1941. Ford is working just great. Thks a bunch John leite

[alanwoodieman]

OK Bubba, what condenser from NAPA IH200??

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

OK Bubba, what condenser from NAPA IH200??

I have good luck with the FA54 condensor 42-48 Ford ...........

[russcc]

Good insight into the condenser issue. It kinda looks like we can't do much about it but grin and bear it. Or can we ? How about the Vertex condensers, where are they made, what makes them worth $30. each, and how are they superior to what we are getting now. I can guess, but I would love to hear the facts. I will call Pat Mason at Mason Racing Ignitions tomorrow, and feedback what I can find out about them as Pat sells them, and has a long term relationship with Vertex.

[wga]

The Mallory condensers are questionable as well. Bubba set up a Mallory dual point for me. Worked fine at his shop, then the condenser went south in 70 miles, while on vacation. Contacted Bubba and got the Vertex condenser, no problems since, and the
Mallory works fine. Thankfully we have someone that we can trust on these ignition QC issues. Echlin was purchased by Dana in the late 90's (while I was employed by Dana) and they found out to late the low profit margins are on ignition parts. Plus, with cars
built the past 10-15 years, ignitions go for 100K + miles, so the replacement business that was profitable went away. Dana later filed for bankruptcy, and the non essential
businesses like Echlin were sold off. Holding companies typically purchase these type
of businesses and drain the profits in order to pay the debt burden. And who suffers?

[CC33]

As recommended by "GM" and Skip, the IH-200 has been used by many for years with no problems. I had purchased 2 condensers from Mac's, only to have them both fail after heating up. Just installed the IH-200 and saw immediate improvement. Also put a spare in the glovebox.
As discussed earlier. Just insert a #10/32 brass screw into the coil where the condenser goes. With the threads sticking out, secure it with a lock washer and nut, then another lock washer and nut to hold the spade tip of the IH-200. Attach the mounting clip to the screw of the coil mount. Done!

[russcc]

Good explanation of the downfall of Echlin, and the ignition replacement parts business. In one comment, the IH200 was reported as an effective solution. I wonder why ? Is it because we actually got a good one by mistake, or by their design they are inherently better ? Maybe Jim can comment on this. I know he reports the MFD are off spec., but what makes the IH200 a better condenser. Just replaced the FA 76 with one, so far so good.