39 - 6 volt electrical question

[Bob C]

When it is turning over slow feel the wires and connections and see if there
is one that is noticeably hotter.

Bob

[V8COOPMAN]

If you bought a NEW starter from Mac's, you can be well-assured that it was manufactured in some hemisphere far, far away. Best advice on an item like that is to send an ORIGINAL "Henry Ford" starter to a legitimate, old-time starter-REBUILD shop to actually re-manufacture that heavy-duty piece of equipment to original. Be aware of shops that will do little more than a quick "clean-up" and an Earl Sheib rebuild". Do you know anyone that you could borrow a REAL starter from to try? DD

It sounds like you've looked into most of the possibilities that would cause your symptoms. I just couldn't justify putting a Taiwanese-made starter on one of my engines even if it were free. DD

[30-9]

Bob C - good advise. I just spoke with Skip Haney (coil master) and he suggested same thing. Feel the wires.

Coop - I can only say, I agree 110%. I have the original starter, maybe I should find a place locally and get it rebuilt. My fear is as you pointed out, Earl Sheib syndrome.....more money wasted.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 30-9

Coop - I can only say, I agree 110%. I have the original starter. My fear is as you pointed out, Earl Sheib syndrome.....more money wasted.

You need to find an old-timey shop in an old part of town that's been around forever! If they do 'big truck' stuff, that's a good sign. DD

[41ford1]

You are getting some good advise here. Double check all the wiring from the battery to the starter. I've seen corrosion in crimped connections cause the same symptoms. If you are near Manchester, NH, Kinney Electric on Webster St. Can check or rebuild the original starter.

[meric42]

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Just as another thing to check, I usually solder all the crimped connections in the starter circuit as I have known resistance to build up in connections that are only crimped. Just My 2c. Hope you get it sorted, Meric.

[Bluebell]

You need to cover a few things: I make the assumption that the charging system is good, that the ignition timing is right and that your engine is not on the verge of seizing.

The start circuit is not that complicated.
It can be the:
1.Battery,
2.Starter motor
3.Wiring (including earth returns)
4.The solenoid/ starter (whatever connects the power to the starter)

So you have 4 basic areas, one of which must have a problem

You need to have the battery load tested (it should be good because the fault was there before you fitted the current one?
The starter needs load testing when it is hot.Was the problem there with an earlier starter? or is this the same one?
Who rebuilt it? Does the resistance of the field windings check out (should be in spec)
Was the armature tested? on a growler?
Are the brushes good? Are the brush springs in spec? Is the brush end plate good?, Replaced? Is the insulation at the brush holders good?
Were the bushes new? When all bolted together, does the armature turn freely?
If your starter is rebuilt was it done like mine? I pulled mine to bits, cleaned it, and put it back together. That is not rebuilt.

If those things are all good, then it is down to the connections, how clean they are and the cross sectional area of your cables, the internal contacts in the solenoid, and the cleanliness of the earth returns.
If you check all these things and they check out fine, you will have fixed it.
Good luck

[30-9]

Originally Posted by Bluebell

You need to cover a few things: I make the assumption that the charging system is good, that the ignition timing is right and that your engine is not on the verge of seizing.

The start circuit is not that complicated.
It can be the:
1.Battery,
2.Starter motor
3.Wiring (including earth returns)
4.The solenoid/ starter (whatever connects the power to the starter)

So you have 4 basic areas, one of which must have a problem

You need to have the battery load tested (it should be good because the fault was there before you fitted the current one? Yes
The starter needs load testing when it is hot.Was the problem there with an earlier starter? Yesor is this the same one?
Who rebuilt it? Does the resistance of the field wings check out (should be in spec)New starter
Was the armature tested? on a growler? no
Are the brushes good? Are the brush springs in spec? Is the brush end plate good?, Replaced? Is the insulation at the brush holders good?new starter
Were the bushes new? When all bolted together, does the armature turn freely?
If your starter is rebuilt was it done like mine? I pulled mine to bits, cleaned it, and put it back together. That is not rebuilt.

If those things are all good, then it is down to the connections, how clean they are and the cross sectional area of your cables, the internal contacts in the solenoid, and the cleanliness of the earth returns.
If you check all these things and they check out fine, you will have fixed it.
Good luck

wish you were right

[30-9]

I cut this from another thread:
When this happens, try shorting out the resistor - put a wire across it. I had a '57 Chevy that did the same thing. It could be '30 below zero and it would start like a champ. Once it warmed up, it couldn't be started again until it cooled way down. Turned out to be a bad resistor. When the resistor got hot its resistance increased to the point where there was not enough voltage presented to the coil....

__________________
Could this be my issue? I never changed the resistor. Could a bad resistor give me the same result as what I explained above?

[JSeery]

30-9 your starting to run in circles here!!! I posted checking the resistor with a jumper in the first reply, post #2. Need to slow down and work on things one at a time and not jump all over the place.

There is no reason that would cause the slow starter issue you are now describing, but is something that is very easy to check.

The problem you are describing almost has to be the starter or something directly related to it.

[30-9]

JS sorry yes your right. I haven't had an opportunity to try it and I sure hope it's that easy.

Again sorry. You guys are a wealth of information and I greatly appreciate all the suggestions.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by 30-9

JS sorry yes your right. I haven't had an opportunity to try it and I sure hope it's that easy.

Again sorry. You guys are a wealth of information and I greatly appreciate all the suggestions.

Worth a try for sure, but it is going to end up being something to do with the starter itself.

[rotorwrench]

Many of us that have worked on 6-volt systems since were were young have learned not to trust wire cables that are too small a gauge, crimped terminal ends, starters & generators that were overhauled by unknown sources, and a battery in unknown condition. Old original starter solenoids are preferred over new parts too.

On ground connections, I use a good quality silicon grease like DC-4 to keep the corrosion at bay. You can get a silicon dielectric grease all over the connection along as it is tight

[J Franklin]

00,0,&1 gauge wire is the right wire for 6 volt starting systems, what do you have? also I didn't know anyone was manufacturing or importing "NEW" 6 volt starting motors.

[FlatheadTed]

Get a quality set of jump leads and run a temporary to earth on the starter, also by pass the solenoid direct to the starter ,with the hot wire jumper see if it come alive ,take a 12 volt battery with you and when the problem appears jump the 12 volt direct to the starter terminal and a head stud for earth if it come alive it will tell you something .Do this with the key on, you will get a few sparks make the contact at the head stud or starter .Did Macs sell you a 12 volt starter ??.Ted

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

00,0,&1 gauge wire is the right wire for 6 volt starting systems, what do you have? also I didn't know anyone was manufacturing or importing "NEW" 6 volt starting motors.

Here's a picture of Macs NEW 12v flatty starter. 6v uses same picture. I'd find it difficult to believe that this starter was manufactured within 1,000 miles of Dorothy's Kansas. DD

[Bruce Lancaster]

And second on checking current through the solenoid. I once had this problem because I was young and dump and assumed that if solenoid turned on the starter it was good...
Then one day while worrying at the problem I touched the solenoid.
I immediately smelled burning bacon and heard screaming, and soon realized that I was the source of those phenomena!

[rotorwrench]

The old solenoid might have good copper contacts but everything wears out eventually. The new stuff worries me with Standard Motor Parts taking over Echlin there is getting less and less stuff you can count on from your local auto parts stores. NOS or good used functional OEM is the way to go if you can scrounge it up. If it comes apart so the contacts can be cleaned, that's a big plus.

[Bob C]

Well it can't be a problem with the starter because the sticker on it says
INSPECTED OK.

Bob

[39topless]

Originally Posted by 39topless

You may want to test that "new" solenoid the next time it gets too hot to start. Just jump the connections on each side of the solenoid with a jump wire and see if you get a better current to the starter. Hint, make sure your car is in neutral.

Yo 30-9, just wondering if you've had a chance to do this yet? Trouble shooting is a process of elimination and this test would eliminate a bad solenoid. Just curious.