Air filter for Model A

[JJASON]

I copied like the one one Ebay,use it on my Tillotson carb. Works good,I want clean air no matter what,going into my engine. Beats rebuilding engine again.Driveing down the street, car naturally kicks up road dirt,that goes into engine,its simple.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Jerry in Shasta

If model A's do not need filters, why do all modern cars have them? Don't we all use the same dirty air?

As for running rich I set the fuel level about 1/16" lower.

JB

If filters were so necessary for the model A, Why didn't Henry install them when they rolled off the assembly line and how have so many model A's survived over eighty years without them??? Model A's can't be compared to modern cars. What is very well necessary for modern cars isn't always necessary for the model A. Nobody said that you copuldn't use one if you choose.

Setting the float 1/16 lower is good to prevent stalling when coming to a stop but has nothing to do with actually running rich or lean.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by JJASON

I copied like the one one Ebay,use it on my Tillotson carb. Works good,I want clean air no matter what,going into my engine. Beats rebuilding engine again.Driveing down the street, car naturally kicks up road dirt,that goes into engine,its simple.

.

Todays paved roads are nothing like the roads of yesteryear. Engine pans have worked pretty well for the model A. Most have survived even without them. Some filters are really not that bad if maximum performance isn't a persons main goal , just not a necessity unless conditions are dustier than usual. The model A is very under powered as compared to modern cars and needs all of the help that they can get to keep out of the way of fast moving traffic . I don't take my model A out in severe dusty conditions. Heavy dust would be uncomfortable for me as well. In such conditions I prefer the air conditioned comfort of our Cadillac and leave the model A at home. Restricted air flow that some filters can cause will result in dilution of the crankcase oil which is as bad or worse than dust. We all still have the right to make our own choices in regard to the use of air filters. Smiley Face.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

If filters were so necessary for the model A, Why didn't Henry install them when they rolled off the assembly line and how have so many model A's survived over eighty years without them??? Model A's can't be compared to modern cars. What is very well necessary for modern cars isn't always necessary for the model A. Nobody said that you copuldn't use one if you choose.

Setting the float 1/16 lower is good to prevent stalling when coming to a stop but has nothing to do with actually running rich or lean.

Henry did and didn't do a lot of things. He was a genius but he wasn't always right. He did accept (slowly) that with progress there is a better way to do things hence the model T made way for the Model A and he did install air filters on the V8's. Yes there are a lot of 80 year old model A's that is indisputable. Most have been run without filters but the question is how many have never had the engine done . I suspect not many and precious few that have been driven extensively on dirt roads. Karl

[Purdy Swoft]

Neither the A or T was fitted with an air filter and most were driven on dirt roads in the day, some terrible rutted dirt roads at that. I wouldn't expect any automobile to survive over 80 years without a few overhauls. I've still got my first september 29 that I got in the spring of 1960 when I was 13 years old. I turned 14 in late november of that year. The car was already 31 years old when I got it . It has never run a air filter till this day. It still has the original standard pistons and hard original babbitt. I've overhauled it twice in all of these years. I honed the cylinders twice ,installed new rings, oversize the last time and piston expanders to quiet piston slap. Its got an easy life now but has been run hard and fast in the past. I first removed shims. The second overhaul, I filed the rod and main caps to maintain .002 clearance and installed new valves. It still runs like a top and I figure that it will last the rest of my life . Model A's are tough and in my opinion need no stinking air filters. No harm meant, I'm just talking model A. Model A's have been a large part of my life for the past 54 going on 55 years. Purdy.

[JOES31]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

[QUOTE=Wrenchy61;922003]Car owners throw away the highly efficient pleated paper filter which is sized for twice the air flow requirement of the engine to allow for particle loading and replace it with a K&N low efficiency filter. Stupid is as stupid does!

Take a K&N filter without the screen, hold it up at eye level, peer through the filter, and watch white cars go by! If you don't believe me, compare the filtration efficiencies!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the H???

If you can't see through the filter that means it's good?????

Compare the efficiency. Do it. 50 to 200 micron large particle test 90 to. 95% for a K&N filter. Any smaller than 50 microns is a non issue.

Obviously never worked on performance engines. A K&N is ideal for an A where you want as little restriction as possible.

[PepeLoco]

I am amazed at how dirty my air filters get on my A. That would be dirt getting in the engine. Just my two bits.

[GrandpasA]

Originally Posted by Jerry in Shasta

If model A's do not need filters, why do all modern cars have them? Don't we all use the same dirty air?

As for running rich I set the fuel level about 1/16" lower.

JB

I'll try that on mine...

[Wrenchy61]

For your own information and a basis for your comments about automotive air filters, I would suggest Googling "K&N air filter myths." Google will list several websites with a broad range of comments most of which are hilarious.

The website by the Nissan Infinity Car Owners Club, NICO has the results of the ISO 5011 particle filtration test on several different brands of filters including the K&N filter. Maybe these test results will be convincing or will you wear out your Model A engine by not applying a filter or by applying an inefficient filter! The choice is yours.


Henry Ford wanted to sell cars and keep them priced real low during the Great Depression. What better way than to cut corners than to eliminate the air filter and allow the engine to wear out before its time?

My 1931 Model A pickup that my Dad bought new in May of 1931 was not equipped with an air filter. Despite the fact the pickup was driven on paved roads, an overhaul was required at 60,000 miles. New rings, valves. and knurling of the pistons was necessary. Knurling of the piston skirts was implemented to carry an oil film that would prevent piston slap in a worn cylinder bore and a worn skirt.

My '31 pickup has a conventional Air Maze paper filter fastened to the inlet of the carburetor. I am not worried about restriction, running rich, or having a fire. All these can be compromised with by a skilled mechanic.

Remember, poor air filtration allows particulate to contaminate the oil since the A engine has no filtration.

I watched an experienced auto mechanic who must have done a sloppy job on overhauling a Blue Flame Chevrolet six cylinder take a a tablespoon of BonAmi and slowly feed it in through the carburetor while the engine was running at about quarter throttle. In no time at all, the engine quit smoking as the piston rings were "seated" to the cylinder walls. Shocking? This same action occurs when driving a vehicle with poor filtration or no filtration of the combustion air of an engine. BonAmi is advertised as a no scratch cleaner.

If you don't believe any of this, conduct your own test. Run your Model A with and without an air filter for 5000 miles. Take an oil sample of each to your local Detroit Engine Dealer and have them do an oil analysis. You should be a believer!

If you still aren't a believer of all of the above, watch the film. "The Air You Breath". Then you Will be a believer.

[JOES31]

Ahhh. Ok. Now you really have me confused. Pouring Bonami into a running carb would be a really stupid thing to do. It would also give all the more reason to run an air filter. Because something is on the Internet and for that matter Google, doesn't mean it's true. If I wanted to waste my time I could find as many articles that would say the filters are better. I prefer to rely on my experience. By the way if you would read this website you will find comments about fires started with using filter or maze run below the carb. I would hate to hear yours caught fire. From my experience of mechanics and engines in general, running a filter below the carb with the way the Zenith was engineered is dangerous period.

I have used K&N's on all my vehicles. Presently I have one on my 2008 Lexus GX470. It has 144,000 miles on it and does not burn a drop of oil. That's LA miles with a lot of standing in traffic. I do oil changes every 5,000 miles. I installed the K&N when I bought it new. I had one on a 1992 940T Volvo. I traded it in with 250,000 miles on it. It did not burn any oil. I also run one on my 86 560 SL, G35 Infinity, and when I get the Hellcat Challenger that will be the first change I'll make on it. Oh yea wait it comes with a cold intake with one on it.

I've used K&N' before they were available for sale at the parts stores and have never had a problem. I think maybe what your not understanding about the filter is that it uses an oil bath to catch the particulate matter. The element is just a medium for the host oil that catches the finer particulate. Take away the oil and it would be less effective.

Trying not to be argumentative but my long experience with them speaks for itself. I'll tell you what. I'll contact K&N and get the current tests and information on the filtration. It's been a long time since I've reviewed it. Hope they remember me.

[Wrenchy61]

I am not here to argue with JOES31 posted comments and his discrediting with what I have commented on.

All I would like to add is that I was a project engineer in a Fortune 500 Company for mostly engine driven generator sets, pump units, and compressor units. During these 26 years of my career, I engineered projects with gas, Diesel, dual-fuel engines,and aero-derivative gas turbines. Every time you flip the switch, fill up the tank, or sleep peacefully, at least one of my projects have touched the lives of every single American. These projects included Nike X, Peterson Air Force Base, Prudhoe Bay, Diseneyworld, Valdez Terminal, the Bay of Campeche, and numberous others.

Prior to this career, I was a tech rep for GM locomotives and mobile power units throughout the world. And prior to this, I was a high school auto mechanics teacher.

I can assure anyone, that the application of engine air filters and other accessories was my responsibility from a small engine to a LM6000 $6,000,000 GE gas turbine. I have dealt with all types of filters and could write a dissertation on these. Maybe I should conduct a seminar for those without a technical education.

I never had to listen to a filter salesman trying to sell me his brand based on his beliefs or his experiences or their profitability. I had all the facts and always will. There is nothing better than a pleated paper air filter to promote the long service life of any engine.

For some people, air filter selection is kind of like the gasoline station patron who asked me, "Do you think I should continue filling up with the best premium fuel available? (I didn't have time to waste on educating him about why various grades of fuel are offered.) I just asked him, "Does this make you feel good!" His reply was, "Yes!". All I said was, "If it makes you feel good, just continue filling up with premium!"

Amen.

[JOES31]

Wrenchy here is what K&N suggested I read to answer my questions.
They gave me the location on their Internet site for the information I requested.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.


Some air filter companies tout their high filtration levels in the 99th percentile. Doesn't higher filtration mean a better air filter?

No. The quality of an air filter can only be judged by reviewing all four important characteristics. 1) Restriction while loading with dust; 2) Filtration efficiency as a percentage; 3) Dust holding capacity before the filter needs cleaning or replacement ; and 4) filter life. Any company designing an air filter must make choices about these four characteristics and how their filter will perform in each area. Generally speaking, each characteristic of an air filter has an inverse relationship to at least one of the others, meaning, as filtration efficiency goes up, restriction increases and capacity or service life decreases. So an air filter manufacturer can design an air filter to have ultra high filtration efficiency by compromising the filters restriction, capacity, and/or service life. We judge the quality of an air filter based upon the proper balance of these four essential criteria. Maximizing one at the expense of others sounds more like a marketing goal rather than an engineering goal. So the basic answer to the original question is that higher filtration is not necessarily a good thing when it comes at the expense of restriction, reusability and/or capacity. While the benefits of a filter with 99.9% filtration are unknown, the benefits of low restriction are measurable and clear. Low restriction helps an engine perform more efficiently generating more power and torque.

That would lead a reasonable person to ask what then is a safe level of filtration. This question is literally unanswered. Minimum air filter specifications are generally not called out in vehicle owners' manuals, nor will you find much published information on air filtration requirements from vehicle manufacturers. We have never seen a scientific study concluding what levels of filtration efficiency correspond to various levels of engine wear. Some large air filter companies do not even publish information on the efficiencies of the air filters they manufacture. It is K&N's opinion that both the Fine and Coarse Test Dust mixtures used in air filter testing contain such a high concentration of small particles that even filtration efficiency numbers as low as 90% may provide adequate engine protection. Remember that almost 11% of COARSE test dust is smaller than 5.5 microns (the size of a red blood cell). For a detailed explanation of our testing protocol, click here.

The fact is that an engine is not a pristine environment. Fuel enters after passing through a fuel filter, combines with air which is ignited to explode in a pressurized chamber. The combustion is not 100% efficient and leaves residues behind that must be flushed from the engine. Engines have tolerances or measured gaps between surface areas. While there are few if any studies on engine wear, it would seem reasonable to speculate that particles less than 5.5 microns create little engine wear unless ingested at very high levels of concentration. As support for this theory, consider the filtration levels provided by fuel filters and oil filters that sometimes tout their ability to filter particles above 10 or 20 microns.

If you really want to compare two air filters, you need to know all four characteristics mentioned above. Consumers can then choose what matters most to them. But comparing two air filters with only one piece of information is like saying a bicycle is better than a car based solely on a comparison of mileage. Yes the mileage is better, but a car has a few other benefits (speed, comfort, keeps you dry in wet weather) that just may offset the mileage disadvantage.

We design air filters to provide low restriction throughout the filter's service interval. We seek the best balance between airflow and filtration recognizing they are inversely related. After nearly 40 years in business with millions of air filters sold, we have a track record you can trust and the experience that can only be earned through years of focusing on just one thing. But even our experience is not enough. We operate a fully staffed air filtration lab that operates on a year round basis with two test stands. The lab was designed by Southwest Research and is calibrated regularly to ensure our test results are reliable. This testing is an essential ingredient in verifying our air filters meet our own high standards of excellence. Making a great air filter is no accident and we are confident our air filters provide outstanding engine protection with huge air flow advantages throughout the air filter's service interval. That's why we back up our replacement air filters with both a Million Mile Warranty and our Consumer Protection Pledge.

K&N's air filtration lab tests air filters according to ISO5011 test protocol. The ISO (International Organization for Standardization) is an international organization which establishes standards used by different industries worldwide. The ISO does not establish any standards for an air filter's effectiveness; they establish standards for the testing procedures used to find air filters' capacities and efficiencies only under the fixed and chosen parameters of the test being conducted. In the case of engine air filters, the ISO5011 test ensures consistency in the procedure used to test a filter's initial restriction, initial efficiency, cumulative (full-life) efficiency, and dust holding capacity. Using a standardized test procedure and disclosing the user selected variables ensures the same test can be run anywhere around the world. Some of the requirements of the ISO5011 test procedure are that the temperature of the test lab must be maintained at 23 degrees Celsius +/- 5 degrees Celsius, and the relative humidity of the test lab must be maintained at 55% +/- 15%, for the entire duration of the test. During the test at each weighing stage (when the mass of the filter is found) the humidity can only vary +/- 2%. Also, all test dust which is fed into the air filter must be "found" after the test is completed. That means if 10 grams of test dust is fed to the filter during the test, but only 8 grams of dust is found trapped in the filter after the test, part of the ISO5011 test procedure requires that the remaining 2 grams of dust must be found. The dust could be in the air filter housing, the air duct, or the absolute filter which traps any dust that passes through the air filter, but wherever it is it must be accounted for. If any of the requirements of the ISO test procedure are not met, the test is not valid. A company's participation in testing using ISO5011 test procedures is strictly voluntary. Conducting an ISO5011 test requires a considerable investment in both time and equipment, and many air filter companies simply do not have the resources to complete an ISO test in-house. K&N views this test procedure as a valuable part of our research and development process.

[160B]

Originally Posted by JOES31

................................If you really want to compare two air filters, you need to know all four characteristics mentioned above. Consumers can then choose what matters most to them. But comparing two air filters with only one piece of information is like saying a bicycle is better than a car based solely on a comparison of mileage. Yes the mileage is better, but a car has a few other benefits (speed, comfort, keeps you dry in wet weather) that just may offset the mileage disadvantage. .............

Well stated, I have read on this thread several references to pleated paper is superior to anything else. The problem is the pleated paper filters sold by some Model A Ford parts suppliers do not have the flow capacity for a Model A 200.5 cubic inch displacement running at operational RPM. The result is the vehicle runs rich. So the statement by itself that pleated paper is superior has no merit unless it is qualified with additional information such as size, manufacturer etc.

[goodoldvic]

No air filter used, used to, my cars runs better w/o

[Purdy Swoft]

Same here !!! I don't wear a dust mask either. A filter is as uncomfortable to my model A as a dust mask is to me. Most won't ever put 60.000 miles on their model A. We don't use ours for primary transportation and wouldn't want to.

[Wrenchy61]

Yawwwwwwwwnnnnnnn!

[Purdy Swoft]

Ain't it the truth !!!!!!!

[Y-Blockhead]

I see it mentioned several times in this thread about engines running rich. Which brings up a question. Are the jets changable and/or available for the Zenith Carbs.

I don't have an opinion on using an air filter or not. My car came with a Air Maze and I was told it was a spark arrestor. I can't see how it wound filter much out the screen is so coarse. maybe gravel small birds??

[Paul from Maine]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I'm not a believer in air filters on model A's with updraft carbs. They mostly cause rich operation and cause more problems than they solve. Thats just me though. If you like it, go for it

I agree! Unless you are driving in a sandstorm, what use is the air filter on an updraft carb? Any type of debris that would be substantial enough to damage the engine would be too heavy to be sucked UP past the throttle plate, UP through the vertical part of the intake and then UP through the valve chamber into the cylinder! With the modern fuels and oils now in use, gooey carbon deposits which trapped airborne dust are rare compared to the old days! I am a firm believer in air filters for downdraft carbs! Airborne sand and dirt that would be too dense to enter an updraft carb would be easily ingested by a downdraft carb! I just don't think a Model A needs an air filter unless you are driving in extremely severe conditions! Henry didn't think they were required when most of the roads were gravel and today most roads are paved!

[JOES31]

Henry also didn't want to change from the Model T to the Model A. He just wanted to keep on making T's until his son Edsel explained how Ford was losing market share and would be gone if they did not change. Hence Edsel won the argument and the A was produced. Basically we have Edsel to thank for the A, and acquiring Mercury and Lincoln. I wonder what Ford would be like today if Edsel would not have died at such an early age.

Paul in my experience ingestion of particulate matter is always going to be worse on an updraft. Dust and dirt comes from the road and a carb is basically a vacuum cleaner and as we know the A updraft is closer to the road than most downdrafts where the dirt and grit would have a much harder time making its way into the carb. Just think about it for a moment. Would more dust be lifted with a vacuum cleaner facing down a foot from the ground or facing up 3 feet from the ground. The large stuff that could do immediate mechanical damage is not the problem. You're right. It can't get past the carb. It's the fine particulate matter that is the problem. It's not going to happen right away and lets face it not many put that many miles on our A's so not running a filter for most of us will not be a problem. Take the filter off your modern car that you drive every day and not only will you wear the engine prematurely you will void your warranty. But we are talking about A's.

From experience I cannot run an engine without a decent filter. My problem.