PayPal --- lesson learned the hard way

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Shadetree

Lesson learned. I would have never thought of that. Did you have the package insured?

I don't think it could have been insured and not required a signature.Seems everything I have had insured required a signature to accept or a note to pick up at PO and show identification.

[Randy in ca]

Originally Posted by 35fordtn

Randy,
This was indeed a eBay transaction, however the same would have applied if it wasn't. It is a PayPal dispute rather than eBay. Had it been a eBay dispute the decision would have fallen in my favor. Our account is a business account but from what I understand the same rule applies to a personal account. eBay and PayPal have different buyer protection policies. As a previous poster stated this all depends on what risk you are comfortable with as a seller. Luckily for all of us we are in a hobby that consists of primarily honorable honest people and this issue shouldn't arise too often

OK, I'm still confused. I go onto the PayPal website and find the following, stating that if an item is not received it is to be dealt with through eBay and not PayPal:

-

"These steps apply to Personal PayPal accounts. If you have a Business account, please log in to your account to see the steps that apply to you.

If you have trouble with a purchase, you can communicate directly with your seller by opening a dispute in our Resolution Center.

If you purchased the item on ebay, use the ebay Resolution Center. If you purchased the item on a site other than eBay, use the PayPal Resolution Center.

There are 2 kinds of disputes:
Item Not Received – You bought something but didn’t receive it. (Wait at least 3 days from the transaction date to give your seller enough time to ship the item.)
Significantly Not as Described – You received an item but it was significantly different from the seller’s original description. (You might have to pay return shipping costs.)

-

Why was he able to go through PayPal and get his money back rather than having to use the eBay Resolution Centre? You'd probably be out of luck with eBay also as they state that for coverage on items over $750 signature on delivery is required, but how was he able to seemingly bypass ebay altogether??

[35fordtn]

Randy,
I understand your question and I am unsure how he avoided eBay all together.

It is possible to ship a insured package without signature, but it does have to have delivery confirmation.

[hardtimes]

Thanks for your original post and intent, as your 'message' is well received and reconfirms that WE can not be too cautious when dealing with people these days ! Sorry for your loss and frustration....bummer.

[G.M.]

I would rather pay by PayPal than any other method of payment. I had several occasions where I signed up for services for lets say a 3 months
period and kept getting billed and my account kept paying them. Complained to the company and they said read the fine print. I looked up complaints against that company and others posted all the company would do or say was "read the fine print. I relayed this info to PayPal and they not only and returned over billing but went back and returned all money ever paid to this company. G.M.

[37 Coupe]

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As stated before if this was an Ebay transaction make sure you block this buyer from bidding the next time. I did this awhile back for a buyer of a Ruger gun stock I listed ,he bid and won and within five minutes of receiving the item as tracking showed he filed a complaint on Ebay.This was without notifying me of any problems. The stock was a NOS Ruger 10/22 walnut stock and he didn't think it was walnut or at least that was his complaint "not as described".Ruger I.D and info states it was. Ebay or PayPal locked up my account. I list as an auction ,no returns, but agreed that buyer would get a full refund upon return of item.Not satisfied as he wanted half of the money back with no return.I told him I could not do this literally as my account was froze due to his complaint filing. It ended up that he indeed did extort me and PayPal would only free up my money if I would agree to a partial refund.I also filed a complaint to Ebay and PayPal about buyer asking if this was routine with him but no answer. Never any problems with old Ford parts buyers or sellers on Ebay but not non English speaking from New York.Only recourse to me was to block him for a future listing.

[skidmarks]

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

As stated before if this was an Ebay transaction make sure you block this buyer from bidding the next time. I did this awhile back for a buyer of a Ruger gun stock I listed ,he bid and won and within five minutes of receiving the item as tracking showed he filed a complaint on Ebay.This was without notifying me of any problems. The stock was a NOS Ruger 10/22 walnut stock and he didn't think it was walnut or at least that was his complaint "not as described".Ruger I.D and info states it was. Ebay or PayPal locked up my account. I list as an auction ,no returns, but agreed that buyer would get a full refund upon return of item.Not satisfied as he wanted half of the money back with no return.I told him I could not do this literally as my account was froze due to his complaint filing. It ended up that he indeed did extort me and PayPal would only free up my money if I would agree to a partial refund.I also filed a complaint to Ebay and PayPal about buyer asking if this was routine with him but no answer. Never any problems with old Ford parts buyers or sellers on Ebay but not non English speaking from New York.Only recourse to me was to block him for a future listing.

I was burned in a similar way over a piece damaged in shipping. Terms of ebqy-paypal is if a item is damaged in shipping to contact the shipper and who shipped it not to file a complaint. But the problem is anything that gets disputed is never read and goes on a time frame only. The the buyer is refunded. The ebay buyer protection policy has made it easy for thieves and has driven many sellers away. Anymore ebay looks like a online walmart with megasellers. Back to the swapmeets for me

[35fordtn]

I personally have no major issues against PayPal and eBay. I think the fees are a bit high, and the vehicle compatibility feature makes it so if you type in for example 1932 Ford it pulls up plastic hubcaps, Small block chevy headers and everything else under the sun., . The issue is the dishonest people in the world. Luckily this is a great hobby with primarily great people so little issues arise when dealing in Ford parts. I can understand in some instances why eBay sides with the buyer due to the old days before PayPal when a buyer would mail in a money order and the seller never shipping the item, etc. It think it's a fine line of making it where buyers feel comfortable and not running all the sellers off.

[1938 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Mike B

Another reason to transfer money out of the linked PayPal to Bank account...PP can't take it back, if it's not there.

That doesn't work unless you close your linked bank account also. When the monthly PayPal statement is due they will automatically take it from your bank account if there isn't enough money in your PayPal account .....so as long as the accounts are linked they will take it!

[jimTN]

I have had items delivered to the wrong address more than several times. Usually get them ementualluy but have lost some. USPS delivered some that way, we tracked them down and the individual stated the boxes were removed from his porch....... Most incidents occur when there is a substitute carrier with either UPS or USPS.

[Juergen]

Sorry for your loss but I can see where a refund is required under paypal policy for signature required on all transactions over $250. Even when not using paypal, ebay requires a signature for transactions over $750.

And, as my daughter learned, not having funds means you get kicked off the service.

[35fordtn]

Just keep in mind PayPal changes there user agreement and policy frequently and emails users that it has changed and encourages you to read through. I sadly never do this as I should. I had it stuck in my mind what this policy stated 8 years ago. That was before the buyer protection program became a pretty serious deal.

[model a vickey]

I assume paypal opened a item not received case and held the funds (this looks like they took it out of your account) until case was resolved. you should have been able to enter tracking number when you responded to the case. did you enter the tracking info and/or go through paypal printing the shipping label. defienitely sorry to hear you got scammed. any info is appreciated so it doesnt happen to others in the future

[karasmer]

Lets say the item was $749 and you had scanned delivery confirmation, I take it the buyer would be out of luck. Another thing to note is scammers may get away with it a couple times but I believe their claim history comes back to bite them, also applies to new users. would usually lose claims. Still baffled how he was able to get around EBay's resolution process.

[35fordtn]

One thing a fellow hobbyist who ran into the same thing mentioned is these "scammers" usually have their PayPal acct. under a business name. Such was the case with my issue his PayPal acct. was under a business name that seems to be a non-existent business in real life. Likely after this follows through he could start another PayPal acct and another bank account under another business name and get away with it again. You as a buyer of have a choice to go through with a dispute through PayPal or eBay.

[rhphotord]

Pay pal can be a pain in the ars if you are a seller. Protect the buyers regardless of sellers good intentions. I had one buyer receive the item and left me positive feedback on E-Bay then one week later made a claim for not receiving item. E-Bay/Pay Pal gave him the money back and deducted money from my account. Tel. calls and emails failed to resolve this issue on my behalf. E-Bay said positive feedback indicating he received the item was worthless! Wonderful right! Only $50.00 but really had me pissed off! ***Scumbag buyer***

[Highboy34]

When reading thru threads like these, I wonder why not just have the buyer send you a check, and after you are sure it has cleared and been deposited in your account, like 3-4 days, only then ship the part and require a signature.

I know this adds time to the cycle and may not be practical for high volume sellers, but doesn't it provide the best protection for the seller?

[35fordtn]

If it is a eBay transaction, eBay requires sellers to accept PayPal as a form of payment.

[Kahuna]

I have purchased items from Ebay for years. I have never had to pay with PayPal, nor will I ever

[Carl]

...I thought when you list an item on Ebay for sale, you must list PayPal as an accepted method of payment. Sorry, just noticed Kahuna is talking about buying, not selling, and Mike, 1935TN, confirmed my thought previously.