Changing of the Guard. A new breed of car nuts.

[Zax40]

The restomod craze is not anything new. Remember in the 90s when shows were full of old Fords with TBI 350s painted in pastel colors with billet everything? Boyd Coddington ring a bell? Fads come and go, and sometimes come back around.

There are still lots of people interested in pre war stock or period cars. As many as there were decades ago? No there isn't. But all is not lost. The hobby will continue on

[tubman]

Owning a Corvette or two (correctly restored, I may add), I once posted on a Corvette forum "What is more out of date than a 5 year old resto-mod?".

It was not well received. After all, it did have a 406 small block.

[ford38v8]

I started this thread with an idea that I didn’t communicate well. I was trying to lament the loss of knowledge available to the new generation. The lessons learned by the real old timers and passed on to us almost old timers is now dying off with what remains of us. The newbies must now make the same dumb mistakes that we avoided because we had tutors. We know things like mustang front suspensions are crap and split wishbones are troublesome at best, but the new guys gotta make their own mistakes. They never heard about ‘37 steering boxes so they want Vega steering boxes. There are damn few true old timers left, and even less of them here on the Barn. For us if we had a question, hell, the local junkyard had expert advice and had the parts to do the job. We didn’t hesitate to rebuild a transmission, we just took the busted gears out to match up at the junk yard, and got the bonus advise to upgrade to ‘39 gears. That kind of expertise is not available to the young’uns today, and they look at us sideways when we try to set them straight because they read some fool hack writer’s magazine article telling about Jaguar independent suspension.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

I started this thread with an idea that I didn’t communicate well. I was trying to lament the loss of knowledge available to the new generation. The lessons learned by the real old timers and passed on to us almost old timers is now dying off with what remains of us. The newbies must now make the same dumb mistakes that we avoided because we had tutors. We know things like mustang front suspensions are crap and split wishbones are troublesome at best, but the new guys gotta make their own mistakes. They never heard about ‘37 steering boxes so they want Vega steering boxes. There are damn few true old timers left, and even less of them here on the Barn. For us if we had a question, hell, the local junkyard had expert advice and had the parts to do the job. We didn’t hesitate to rebuild a transmission, we just took the busted gears out to match up at the junk yard, and got the bonus advise to upgrade to ‘39 gears. That kind of expertise is not available to the young’uns today, and they look at us sideways when we try to set them straight because they read some fool hack writer’s magazine article telling about Jaguar independent suspension.

I don't think it's the problem that you are postulating. Think of all of the books put out by the EFV8CA over the last 30 or so years. None of that knowledge was available when I started out. It's only getting better; there is an entirely new '33-'34 book in the works, (even though I thought the original was excellent). I am sure that you have heard that "once something is on the Internet, it's there forever". I'll bet that 50 years from now, every bit of knowledge posted here (or on the H.A.M.B and other such forums) will still be easily accessible.

And, I have to disagree with you about "the local junkyard had expert advice". I will guarantee you that the advice you can find on rebuilding a pre-war Ford transmission here will beat the hell out of what you got at the local scrapyard 50 years ago. I got a lot of good parts from Jim at Carmichel's Auto Parts in the fifties and sixties, but also some bad advice ("you don't want this Columbia for $10, they're nothin' but trouble).

Actually, things are pretty good now, and they'll only get better as technology advances and gets cheaper.

[Tinker]

Long time listener, first time caller... I'm glad things haven't changed here much. There is certainly a small selection of people that are interesting in doing it right or what we do. But they are few and fewer. But there is some. Guess if you see it, help them.

[Tinker]

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I still run 6 volt. hahaha


Things can change but there will always be a few that don't. Hell there is a model T club here. Ya think they care about upgrades.


I suppose 1 in 3-5 nice original cars sold get cut up to make a restomod to feed the credit card car dudes. Probably about the same or more for the hotrodders.


Last show I went to up here I was the only flathead, one 4 banger. Street rod country.



.

[1942deluxe]

I recently saw a 1959 El Camino "resto mod" that I would describe the front suspension as unsafe at best, Wildwood brake system that barely stopped the car, etc. There are some great builds but others where people get "catalogitis" and have no idea what the cause and effect of a modification is. I wouldn't sell any of my old cars without making sure the buyer drove them 15-20 miles. None of them drive like a modern car nor did they when they were new and that's what I enjoy about them. You have to think and be engaged to drive them. It takes time and patience to fine tune this stuff. There were mechanics years ago and then there were really good mechanics. My stuff too is 6 volt. Starts great cold or hot but it took work to get it to that point. I would agree around here there is a loss of knowledge but thanks to folks like Charlie NY I've been able to figure most of it out. The internet and Ebay have also made it easier to find parts. The glass is half full.....

[TonyM]

Originally Posted by 1942deluxe

None of them drive like a modern car nor did they when they were new and that's what I enjoy about them. .

This is the charm of antique auto ownership for me.

[34fordy]

Originally Posted by TonyM

This is the charm of antique auto ownership for me.

Right on Tony. It is a feeling you cannot describe. It can only be felt by those of us who get the warm fuzzy feelings. I can even get that in the coldest days of winter sitting in my shop and looking at the front end of my 36 pickup resting in the other shop room.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by TonyM

This is the charm of antique auto ownership for me.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by TonyM

This is the charm of antique auto ownership for me.

I agree. It takes me back to a time when there was some romance to early motoring. Now it's hurry up, cut someone off and flip them the bird.

[farmertom]

TonyM,thats the same look and Itoo get that vibe driving my '37 fordor. looks like your dash and mine are very simular cond.both still have a good amount of woodgrain showing.i drive my '37 daily. can't get enough!! Tom.

[CaliforniaBorn36]

Alan, (ford38v8), another piece of the issue, is finding mechanics and good parts if something is beyond ones skill level. Flathead mechanics are few and far between. I waited almost a year, with my car sitting in the garage, after I found a good flathead mechanic to work on it. If I remember, yours had been out of commission for over 10 years. If people's car sit in the garage how are the younger people going to grow to appreciate them. I loved my original condition 1936 Ford, but had become nervous that while driving it there would be an issue, so I began driving it less.

I chose to replace it with a similar vehicle with updated running gear and now I can drive it more frequently and farther. I get the chance to talk to many young gear heads about it and I think raise the interest level.

The more frequently these vehicle are on the road, the more they are seen and appreciated.

If you have a stockpile of parts, assess realistically a reasonable value and offer those to people attempting to fix or restore a car. As a wise man once told me, "The current value of an item is what the person in front of you is willing to pay for it, it's your decision to sell and help them out, or continue storing it until someone agrees with what you think it is worth.

As pointed out by another, some people think every vintage part they have is worth a fortune. At the prices some try to sell things, no wonder younger people think they can't afford vintage cars. If you don't sell it to someone who can use it, what will happen to those parts when you pass...landfill...creating more unobtainium.

[38 coupe]

Various segments of the old car hobby have been having this discussion for decades now. The explanation that fits best in my mind is: availability, affordability, and familiarity.

• Availability - nice flathead era Fords have not been the easiest thing to find since the 70s. You don't see them around on used car lots. For decades you have had to stumble on one, or search one out. For decades the typical entry level car enthusiast didn't end up with a flathead Ford.
• Affordability - nice flathead era Fords have been expensive for decades. Air cooled VWs, Fox body Mustangs, etc. were affordable for entry level. Our flathead cars were not. The price is now coming down, but too late for mass entry into the hobby.
• Familiarity - this one hurts the worst. I am one of the "young guys" in the hobby, approaching my mid 40s. I grew up in the old car hobby. Weekends were spent with the Model A Club, Vintage Chevrolet Club, Early Times Chapter of the Pontiac Oakland Club, Horseless Carriage Club, and the Early Ford V8 Club (dad was really involved). My brother and I were usually the only kids there. I don't remember ever seeing other kids at V8 Club events. Model A Club at least had an annual "Family Day" that brought out the kids and grand kids. A related experience was talking to a couple at the 2013 Grand National Meet at Lake Tahoe; the couple was more interested in getting a return on investment with their old Fords than they were in passing them on to the next generation. I have met multiple people in the hobby from past decades with that mind set. I find it sad.

I will keep on enjoying my mostly stock old Fords. I will keep encouraging people I meet to maintain nice flathead era Ford as stock cars and trucks. I don't expect everyone to do that. I am mildly frustrated at how easy it is to find advice on modifying the old Ford instead of repairing it (magazines, videos, online forums, etc). Yes, good information on maintaining and repairing is out there, but you have to search for it. It is much easier to find information on modifying. I expect the majority of the preserved flathead era Fords to be modified beyond restoration in the next decade or two.

I have been trying to find an upbeat tone to end this very long post on, but don't have one.
Apologies,
Fred Mills

[expavr]

Fred,I would like to offer an upbeat note to this thread. I recently drove the Tonner to a local cruise-in event which was populated by a wide variety of makes and models including years built. The number of younger folks who came by to look and chat was significant. A few had never seen a flathead engine. The “vintage iron” fire may be cooling down, but if the interest in the Tonner is any indication it’s not close to being dead in my opinion. Les

[Ziggster]

Came across this Flathead industrial engine (used at a ski lift) on FB marketplace two days ago. It’s local, and was offered for free. I responded saying I would take and was local. I had my suspicions, and sure enough the seller (knows nothing about it - estate sale) now says he is looking for best offer. Replied saying last seized industrial Flathead I purchased for $100, and offered $150. Never heard back, and seller has now changed the ad. So, here we go, someone who knows absolutely nothing about flatheads, now thinks he’s sitting on some kind of treasure.

[Ziggster]

Some pics of the engine.

[19Fordy]

zigster: I doubt if the seller of that engine will be able to find a buyer.
It's not worth even $100 unless you need the parts, IMO.

[34fordy]

I would tell the "guy" that you will haul it away if he pays you $100. I also would have the money in my hand first from a "guy" with no principles!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Ziggster

Some pics of the engine.