The Ford Barn

russcc · 12-14-2015, 07:36 PM

Getting a handle on the right rear axle ratio & tire size for the '40 coupe to operate at 65 MPH or so as needed. The engine is a 59L 3&5/16" x 4". The axle ratio & tire size says that at 65 mph with a 3:78 rear axle & 7:00x16 tire, the revs should be around 2,700. What camshaft is recommended for that engine/chassis combo to put the torque curve in the 2,500 to 3,000 RPM range. No high rpms will be needed. From my experience with a vintage 23' boat weighing 4,000#s with a 351 Windsor, (Ford) engine, is that the torque sweet spot is right about my cruising speed rpm of 2,400 to 3,000.

JSeery · 12-14-2015, 07:58 PM

Don't think you are going to beat the stock Ford cam unless there are a lot of other modifications.

deuce_roadster · 12-14-2015, 08:03 PM

You can however beat the stock Ford brakes. Consider going to Lincoln (Bendix) style brakes to stop that car when going 65+
Stock 53 Merc cam would be good.

Tim Ayers · 12-14-2015, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

You can however beat the stock Ford brakes. Consider going to Lincoln (Bendix) style brakes to stop that car when going 65+
Stock 53 Merc cam would be good.

He'd then have to commit to using the side post dizzy.

Binx · 12-14-2015, 08:32 PM

From the stoplight, stock Merc 8CM if you can find one. Next, through second gear and beyond is Isky 1007B. I think Pete can grind one for you. Be careful with a new grind from Isky. There was a member not long ago dialed-in a new Isky 1007B with a degree wheel and it was way off.

Edit: Oh, and there is Tony's L-100 too, but consumer reports say it's only fun over 30mph because it's kinda lumpy.

Lonnie

russcc · 12-15-2015, 05:47 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Can you convert an '53 Merc 8CM cam to drive a crab distributor ?

37 Cab · 12-15-2015, 08:18 AM

I think you would be better off having a cam ground to 8CM specs that fits the crab dist.

Tim Ayers · 12-15-2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37 Cab

I think you would be better off having a cam ground to 8CM specs that fits the crab dist.

Agreed. If going through the trouble to swap the cam, there may also be a better grind to suite your needs.

If everything is going to be stock, I would call George at Clay Smith cams. Most of their grinds are relatively low lift and would clear stock heads.

They still grind a fair number of different grinds for flatheads.

alanwoodieman · 12-15-2015, 01:29 PM

yes local machinist charges $25 to do the conversion from 8CM to front mount

Seth Swoboda · 12-15-2015, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

Don't think you are going to beat the stock Ford cam unless there are a lot of other modifications.

I couldn't agree more. Don't waste your money on anything but a stock ford camshaft on this arrangement. I know it sounds sexy to say you have a fancy camshaft grind but you won't benefit from it. I speak from experience.

Ol' Ron · 12-15-2015, 02:15 PM

I think Cruise RPM fir a flathead is in the 1800- 2400 range, at least, that's mine definition. That's not to say it can't be higher, I just don't want it screaming down the road just going someplace. I gear the car/truck accordingly. The difference between a stock early T-5 grind (Pre 49) cam and the EAB,8CM,1CM cams, would be hardly noticeable. These profiles are3 only a few thousandth higher with a re-arranged timing with approximately the same duration and lift. The valves were also equipped with rotators, and automatic transmissions were also available. So this project is $$$$$ rich, and performance poor.

scooder · 12-16-2015, 02:58 AM

Ron,
Could you clarify "performance poor" please, this refer to your 280?
Thanks,
Martin.

Ol' Ron · 12-16-2015, 06:18 AM

I now have the 280 on the road and have a chance to see it my idea of a good street engine was any good. The cam is an EAB, and the reason I used it is because I'm using rotators on the valves, but I don't think that's necessary now. Low end torque is better than expected, but I haven't had it in the hills, or checked fuel mileage yet. The truck is not meant for interstate running but the 36% OD should help there. As for the cam, I still don't think the differences between the other "STOCK" cams would have made a noticeable difference in performance. However, we'll never know, because I ain't changing it to find out.

Walt Dupont--Me. · 12-16-2015, 07:48 AM

I posted a pic awhile ago of what I call an inexpensive engine for a friend. He's putting it in a 40 coupe that he's building ground up. (50 Merc. 276, EAB cam, EAB heads, dual carbs,) I think this will be nice engine for his 40 coupe, T-5 trains, 3-78 gears I think. we'll know next summer. Walt

40cpe · 12-16-2015, 11:05 AM

Walt, did you have to do any work to the EAB heads to clear the pistons? I just finished a set for my 276" and had to increase the dome width and take some off the top of the dome to get clearance with no head gasket. LOTS of time for an amateur to do it. The biggest problem was determining the contact spots . I finally used black shoe polish on the head chamber to see the contact spots on the pistons. There is probably something better, but this worked for me on getting clearance. They are not on the engine yet, hoping for even compression.

Walt Dupont--Me. · 12-16-2015, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40cpe

Walt, did you have to do any work to the EAB heads to clear the pistons? I just finished a set for my 276" and had to increase the dome width and take some off the top of the dome to get clearance with no head gasket. LOTS of time for an amateur to do it. The biggest problem was determining the contact spots . I finally used black shoe polish on the head chamber to see the contact spots on the pistons. There is probably something better, but this worked for me on getting clearance. They are not on the engine yet, hoping for even compression.

I've had a few EAB heads that the pistons were hitting, but they had been milled, there good heads but won't stand much milling. I always do the valves before I install the pistons, slide the heads down over a couple of studs with no gasket, turn the engine over and see if the valves lift the head, if they don't hit they will be fine with a gasket you can figure .050 thick on the gasket. Do the same thing after install pistons, if pistons hit head try it with a gasket, if they don't hit clay the pistons( snub the head down with about 4 nuts or bolts. You can probably get away .040 clearance. Walt

KiWinUS · 12-16-2015, 06:50 PM

Edit: Oh, and there is Tony's L-100 too, but consumer reports say it's only fun over 30mph because it's kinda lumpy.
Lonnie

Thanks Lonnie , yes I can supply you with a KiWi-100 cam , this grind has been used in many different engine combo's in many different weight body style Ford Flathead powered cars & trucks ,applications including cruisers to race cars , putting a smile on many a face from both the sound & all around "Great" performance !
Your question will for sure as you see get many answers & opinions .
I also offer several other great flathead cam grinds from mild to wild !
Just a few being =_ stock Merc. grind ,Isky 1007LD , Isky 1016 , KiWi-Eliminator (Potvin) an more ...

Please pm me should you need any further information .
Cheers
Tony

tubman · 12-16-2015, 06:58 PM

Commercial. I PM'd Tony for some dyno numbers on his cams, and got no reply. I'd go with a stock cam in a relatively heavy car like this.

KiWinUS · 12-16-2015, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Commercial. I PM'd Tony for some dyno numbers on his cams, and got no reply. I'd go with a stock cam in a relatively heavy car like this.

Sorry tubman If I overlooked your pm , I like most other flathead engine builders have no dyno figures that I choose to offer . As most are aware there are so many possible flathead engine combinations & so many opinions of how to build a flathead to compare one cam to another with the same combo would be a bad comparison.(eg. valve to head clearance. )
The best information I have to offer is from the many great flathead builders that have used this cam & continue to use it over & over . The many happy customers I receive nothing but thanks from for once again making this great cam available . The real thanks probably needs to go to the Literio brothers & for sure the great Dave Generous !!!

Cheers
Tony

Binx · 12-16-2015, 10:23 PM

Tony, can you post your specs on the Merc cam?

Thanks,

Lonnie

Ol' Ron · 12-16-2015, 10:57 PM

One the 280 I have I milled the EAB heads .040 thousands, Installed a used gasket and had to clear up an area around the quench area with a Dremmel To get the .045/.050" clearance. The EAB heads won't clear the L-100. I do this at a 5 degs angle which removes very little material.. Having dynoed several engines with the L-100 a Mild 276 got 135 hp and a built 284 got 175, Takes more than a cam to make HP.

12-14-2015, 07:36 PM	#1
russcc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,871	Cam shaft choices Getting a handle on the right rear axle ratio & tire size for the '40 coupe to operate at 65 MPH or so as needed. The engine is a 59L 3&5/16" x 4". The axle ratio & tire size says that at 65 mph with a 3:78 rear axle & 7:00x16 tire, the revs should be around 2,700. What camshaft is recommended for that engine/chassis combo to put the torque curve in the 2,500 to 3,000 RPM range. No high rpms will be needed. From my experience with a vintage 23' boat weighing 4,000#s with a 351 Windsor, (Ford) engine, is that the torque sweet spot is right about my cruising speed rpm of 2,400 to 3,000.

12-14-2015, 07:58 PM	#2
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Cam shaft choices Don't think you are going to beat the stock Ford cam unless there are a lot of other modifications. Last edited by JSeery; 12-14-2015 at 08:22 PM.

12-14-2015, 08:03 PM	#3
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: Cam shaft choices You can however beat the stock Ford brakes. Consider going to Lincoln (Bendix) style brakes to stop that car when going 65+ Stock 53 Merc cam would be good.

12-14-2015, 08:32 PM	#5
Binx Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Gloucester VA Posts: 1,042	Re: Cam shaft choices From the stoplight, stock Merc 8CM if you can find one. Next, through second gear and beyond is Isky 1007B. I think Pete can grind one for you. Be careful with a new grind from Isky. There was a member not long ago dialed-in a new Isky 1007B with a degree wheel and it was way off. Edit: Oh, and there is Tony's L-100 too, but consumer reports say it's only fun over 30mph because it's kinda lumpy. Lonnie Last edited by Binx; 12-14-2015 at 08:47 PM.

12-15-2015, 05:47 AM	#6
russcc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,871	Re: Cam shaft choices Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Can you convert an '53 Merc 8CM cam to drive a crab distributor ?

12-15-2015, 08:18 AM	#7
37 Cab Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Miami Oklahoma Posts: 535	Re: Cam shaft choices I think you would be better off having a cam ground to 8CM specs that fits the crab dist. __________________ Tommy

12-15-2015, 01:29 PM	#9
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 2,967	Re: Cam shaft choices yes local machinist charges $25 to do the conversion from 8CM to front mount

12-15-2015, 02:15 PM	#11
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,862	Re: Cam shaft choices I think Cruise RPM fir a flathead is in the 1800- 2400 range, at least, that's mine definition. That's not to say it can't be higher, I just don't want it screaming down the road just going someplace. I gear the car/truck accordingly. The difference between a stock early T-5 grind (Pre 49) cam and the EAB,8CM,1CM cams, would be hardly noticeable. These profiles are3 only a few thousandth higher with a re-arranged timing with approximately the same duration and lift. The valves were also equipped with rotators, and automatic transmissions were also available. So this project is $$$$$ rich, and performance poor.

12-16-2015, 02:58 AM	#12
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Cam shaft choices Ron, Could you clarify "performance poor" please, this refer to your 280? Thanks, Martin.

12-16-2015, 06:18 AM	#13
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,862	Re: Cam shaft choices I now have the 280 on the road and have a chance to see it my idea of a good street engine was any good. The cam is an EAB, and the reason I used it is because I'm using rotators on the valves, but I don't think that's necessary now. Low end torque is better than expected, but I haven't had it in the hills, or checked fuel mileage yet. The truck is not meant for interstate running but the 36% OD should help there. As for the cam, I still don't think the differences between the other "STOCK" cams would have made a noticeable difference in performance. However, we'll never know, because I ain't changing it to find out.

12-16-2015, 07:48 AM	#14
Walt Dupont--Me. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gardiner Me. Posts: 4,200	Re: Cam shaft choices I posted a pic awhile ago of what I call an inexpensive engine for a friend. He's putting it in a 40 coupe that he's building ground up. (50 Merc. 276, EAB cam, EAB heads, dual carbs,) I think this will be nice engine for his 40 coupe, T-5 trains, 3-78 gears I think. we'll know next summer. Walt

12-16-2015, 11:05 AM	#15
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: Cam shaft choices Walt, did you have to do any work to the EAB heads to clear the pistons? I just finished a set for my 276" and had to increase the dome width and take some off the top of the dome to get clearance with no head gasket. LOTS of time for an amateur to do it. The biggest problem was determining the contact spots . I finally used black shoe polish on the head chamber to see the contact spots on the pistons. There is probably something better, but this worked for me on getting clearance. They are not on the engine yet, hoping for even compression.

12-16-2015, 06:50 PM	#17
KiWinUS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here Posts: 2,963	Re: Cam shaft choices Edit: Oh, and there is Tony's L-100 too, but consumer reports say it's only fun over 30mph because it's kinda lumpy. Lonnie Thanks Lonnie , yes I can supply you with a KiWi-100 cam , this grind has been used in many different engine combo's in many different weight body style Ford Flathead powered cars & trucks ,applications including cruisers to race cars , putting a smile on many a face from both the sound & all around "Great" performance ! Your question will for sure as you see get many answers & opinions . I also offer several other great flathead cam grinds from mild to wild ! Just a few being =_ stock Merc. grind ,Isky 1007LD , Isky 1016 , KiWi-Eliminator (Potvin) an more ... Please pm me should you need any further information . Cheers Tony

12-16-2015, 06:58 PM	#18
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,321	Re: Cam shaft choices Commercial. I PM'd Tony for some dyno numbers on his cams, and got no reply. I'd go with a stock cam in a relatively heavy car like this.

12-16-2015, 10:23 PM	#20
Binx Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Gloucester VA Posts: 1,042	Re: Cam shaft choices Tony, can you post your specs on the Merc cam? Thanks, Lonnie

12-16-2015, 10:57 PM	#21
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,862	Re: Cam shaft choices One the 280 I have I milled the EAB heads .040 thousands, Installed a used gasket and had to clear up an area around the quench area with a Dremmel To get the .045/.050" clearance. The EAB heads won't clear the L-100. I do this at a 5 degs angle which removes very little material.. Having dynoed several engines with the L-100 a Mild 276 got 135 hp and a built 284 got 175, Takes more than a cam to make HP.