The Ford Barn

CarlG · 07-25-2015, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700rpm

He didn't say anything about an F100 box, so I assumed it's stock.

I was just sayin', not implying anything.

smittykid · 07-25-2015, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeK

The Bendix drive spring is severely bent. That's your problem. Caused by kickback while starting.

I always fully retard the spark prior to starting. However, after reading your post, I got to thinking about something. I have only had this car about 3 weeks. I noticed that when I advanced the spark after starting, there was little or no difference in the sound of the engine. It runs a little rough at lower speeds- but seems to run great 40-45 mph.
When I would bring her back into the garage, I retard the spark before shutting her off. Again, I would notice virtually no difference in the sound of the engine when the spark is retadred. It appears the lever is moving the rod that goes to the distributor, however it now makes me wonder if the spark is being retarded enough. How can I tell?

Mitch//pa · 07-25-2015, 11:46 AM

make sure you get full throw in each direction at the distributor where the rod hooks up..
then reset your points and timing to specs

Dollar Bill · 07-25-2015, 12:20 PM

To amplify what MikeK was telling you, here's a photo of how it should appear.

You will notice your starter drive is partially engaging the helix due to the sprung spring which gave you such a hard time in removing the starter.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 07-25-2015, 01:42 PM

I hope NO ONE ridiculed Smittykid, cuz he didn't know how to take off his starter!!! REMEMBER, he might be the expurt that does your INCOME TAXES or replaces your burned out HEART VALVE! Like the Dr. that replaced Greggs' heart valve & discovered a HUGE ANEURYSM on his main AEORTA & repaired it with plastic tubing & clamps!
Bill W.

Brentwood Bob · 07-25-2015, 03:44 PM

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I also see what looks like a chipped tooth. I would look for a good replacement.
Also with the bendix removed from the starter shaft, rotate the starter motor, and see if the shaft is bent.
Bob

Indiana A. Lover · 07-25-2015, 05:13 PM

Bill Ever since I enrolled in model A 101, you have been a light at the end of the tunnel, ofconfusion and not knowing my ass from a cut out! I look forward to your humor every day. Keep it up and pet the dog for me. Don in North West Indiana. 20 miles from Dillengers Jail at Crown Point In. Get your self to my house and I will take you on trip to the Jail !

mshmodela · 07-25-2015, 06:27 PM

smitty,

Here's what mine looked like 2 weeks ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nedCbS2eXSw

RonC · 07-25-2015, 10:24 PM

Connect jumper cables to it and see if the starter spins. The bendix's only function is to engage and disengage the flywheel. replace the spring on the bendix if the starter works before reinstalling it. Make sure you get the correct spring for the bolt size. The later bolts were larger I think 3/8"

Tom Wesenberg · 07-26-2015, 12:06 PM

Be sure to use new locking tab washers with the new spring (or new Bendix) and be sure to use the long spring bolt in the end of the shaft, as it must engage a pocket in the shaft. Be sure the tiny pin and spring on the pinion weight is free and has a drop of oil on it.

The helix must be free of rust and dirt. I give it a light coat of thin oil, such as ATF. It will keep it from rusting during winter or humid storage.

Gary Karr · 07-26-2015, 01:15 PM

I might add one more thing to check, a good ground on the ground strap to the frame. I have lost complete starter function due to a bad ground.

smittykid · 07-28-2015, 09:24 PM

Just a minor update. I ordered a new bendix drive from Snyder's. I contacted my local starter rebuilder guy. Hopefully I'll be able to install the repaired starter by the first of next week. I'll get her timed and the points set and see what happens. Thanks again for all your help.

Bob C · 07-28-2015, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smittykid

Just a minor update. I ordered a new bendix drive from Snyder's. I contacted my local starter rebuilder guy. Hopefully I'll be able to install the repaired starter by the first of next week. I'll get her timed and the points set and see what happens. Thanks again for all your help.

Set the points first and then the timing.

Bob

700rpm · 08-02-2015, 08:23 PM

Retard the spark when starting.

smittykid · 08-07-2015, 03:40 PM

Another update. I received the new starter drive from Snyder's & had the starter guys remove the old one & install the new one. Got it home & reinstalled the starter. It turned the engine over about 4 different times then froze up. I took it out & back to the starter guys. The gear was hanging up. I purchased a new (made in USA) starter drive & the installed it for me. Took it home & reinstalled the starter. This one works like a champ! Snyder's have been super about the refund. They will even refund me my return postage.
Reset the points and followed Les Andrews' instructions on timing. She fired right up and I took her for about a 2 mile ride. Ran smooth, but no power. Also, when i got back to the garage the engine compartment seemed hotter than usual. Narrowed the point gap to about .019. Now i can't get it started at all. Tried to set the timing again, but I'm having an awful time locating the detent in the timing gear. What did I do wrong?

Tom Wesenberg · 08-07-2015, 04:26 PM

Your timing is most likely late and that will cause excess heat and loss of power. Crank the engine slowly and push a small Philips screwdriver into the timing pin hole to feel for the detent.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-07-2015, 04:32 PM

Loosen the dist cam screw, turn the dist cam CCW a smidge & see if it sounds better. ONCE you learn the "proper" sound of a Model A, you can set the timing by EAR!
PROPER SOUNDS ARE:
1 Spark up= a smooth, rhythmical, TADA-TADA-TADA-TADA.
2 Spark 1/2 down = a faster, smooth idle.
3 Spark full down = an even faster, but "rolling" idle.
Bill W.
(With ALL THE TIME SOME SPEND, JUST SETTIN' THEIR TIMING, I could probably have Vermin FINISHED!)
SA Bill W.

zzlegend · 08-07-2015, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smittykid

Another update. I received the new starter drive from Snyder's & had the starter guys remove the old one & install the new one. Got it home & reinstalled the starter. It turned the engine over about 4 different times then froze up. I took it out & back to the starter guys. The gear was hanging up. I purchased a new (made in USA) starter drive & the installed it for me. Took it home & reinstalled the starter. This one works like a champ! Snyder's have been super about the refund. They will even refund me my return postage.
Reset the points and followed Les Andrews' instructions on timing. She fired right up and I took her for about a 2 mile ride. Ran smooth, but no power. Also, when i got back to the garage the engine compartment seemed hotter than usual. Narrowed the point gap to about .019. Now i can't get it started at all. Tried to set the timing again, but I'm having an awful time locating the detent in the timing gear. What did I do wrong?

When you went for your 2 mile ride, did you pull the advance lever down about half or 2/3 ? They get a little hot leaving the lever up in retard position, plus not much power. Just a thought.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-08-2015, 11:50 AM

If NEW to Model A's, just remember, sorta' match advance to road speed! DON'T just "SET IT & FORGET IT"! Too bad the advance lever is not marked, 10 MPH, 20 MPH, 30 MPH, 40 MPH & "BALLS' OUT"!! When "rookies" watch you doin' this, they think you're a FRIGGIN' GENIUS!
Some feel that FULL ADVANCE gives MORE power on hills, WRONG!!--Again, match the ADVANCE to your ROAD speed! Using the advance lever correctly even gives you BETTER gas mileage.
Cars with centrifugal advance, do it for you, AUTOMATICALLY! Hope I said all this right, I just BARELY had an ANTI-PAIN PILL & COWBOY COFFEE.
Bill W.

07-25-2015, 11:46 AM	#23
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Starter motor removal question make sure you get full throw in each direction at the distributor where the rod hooks up.. then reset your points and timing to specs

07-25-2015, 01:42 PM	#25
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Starter motor removal question I hope NO ONE ridiculed Smittykid, cuz he didn't know how to take off his starter!!! REMEMBER, he might be the expurt that does your INCOME TAXES or replaces your burned out HEART VALVE! Like the Dr. that replaced Greggs' heart valve & discovered a HUGE ANEURYSM on his main AEORTA & repaired it with plastic tubing & clamps! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

07-25-2015, 03:44 PM	#26
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,301	Re: Starter motor removal question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I also see what looks like a chipped tooth. I would look for a good replacement. Also with the bendix removed from the starter shaft, rotate the starter motor, and see if the shaft is bent. Bob

07-25-2015, 05:13 PM	#27
Indiana A. Lover Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Brook, Indiana Posts: 214	Re: Starter motor removal question Bill Ever since I enrolled in model A 101, you have been a light at the end of the tunnel, ofconfusion and not knowing my ass from a cut out! I look forward to your humor every day. Keep it up and pet the dog for me. Don in North West Indiana. 20 miles from Dillengers Jail at Crown Point In. Get your self to my house and I will take you on trip to the Jail !

07-25-2015, 06:27 PM	#28
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Starter motor removal question smitty, Here's what mine looked like 2 weeks ago... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nedCbS2eXSw __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

07-25-2015, 10:24 PM	#29
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Starter motor removal question Connect jumper cables to it and see if the starter spins. The bendix's only function is to engage and disengage the flywheel. replace the spring on the bendix if the starter works before reinstalling it. Make sure you get the correct spring for the bolt size. The later bolts were larger I think 3/8"

07-26-2015, 12:06 PM	#30
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Starter motor removal question Be sure to use new locking tab washers with the new spring (or new Bendix) and be sure to use the long spring bolt in the end of the shaft, as it must engage a pocket in the shaft. Be sure the tiny pin and spring on the pinion weight is free and has a drop of oil on it. The helix must be free of rust and dirt. I give it a light coat of thin oil, such as ATF. It will keep it from rusting during winter or humid storage.

07-26-2015, 01:15 PM	#31
Gary Karr Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,488	Re: Starter motor removal question I might add one more thing to check, a good ground on the ground strap to the frame. I have lost complete starter function due to a bad ground.

07-28-2015, 09:24 PM	#32
smittykid Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: NW Pa./Sc. Posts: 252	Re: Starter motor removal question Just a minor update. I ordered a new bendix drive from Snyder's. I contacted my local starter rebuilder guy. Hopefully I'll be able to install the repaired starter by the first of next week. I'll get her timed and the points set and see what happens. Thanks again for all your help.

08-02-2015, 08:23 PM	#34
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,927	Re: Starter motor removal question Retard the spark when starting. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

08-07-2015, 03:40 PM	#35
smittykid Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: NW Pa./Sc. Posts: 252	Re: Starter motor removal question Another update. I received the new starter drive from Snyder's & had the starter guys remove the old one & install the new one. Got it home & reinstalled the starter. It turned the engine over about 4 different times then froze up. I took it out & back to the starter guys. The gear was hanging up. I purchased a new (made in USA) starter drive & the installed it for me. Took it home & reinstalled the starter. This one works like a champ! Snyder's have been super about the refund. They will even refund me my return postage. Reset the points and followed Les Andrews' instructions on timing. She fired right up and I took her for about a 2 mile ride. Ran smooth, but no power. Also, when i got back to the garage the engine compartment seemed hotter than usual. Narrowed the point gap to about .019. Now i can't get it started at all. Tried to set the timing again, but I'm having an awful time locating the detent in the timing gear. What did I do wrong?

08-07-2015, 04:26 PM	#36
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Starter motor removal question Your timing is most likely late and that will cause excess heat and loss of power. Crank the engine slowly and push a small Philips screwdriver into the timing pin hole to feel for the detent.

08-07-2015, 04:32 PM	#37
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Starter motor removal question Loosen the dist cam screw, turn the dist cam CCW a smidge & see if it sounds better. ONCE you learn the "proper" sound of a Model A, you can set the timing by EAR! PROPER SOUNDS ARE: 1 Spark up= a smooth, rhythmical, TADA-TADA-TADA-TADA. 2 Spark 1/2 down = a faster, smooth idle. 3 Spark full down = an even faster, but "rolling" idle. Bill W. (With ALL THE TIME SOME SPEND, JUST SETTIN' THEIR TIMING, I could probably have Vermin FINISHED!) SA Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

08-08-2015, 11:50 AM	#39
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Starter motor removal question If NEW to Model A's, just remember, sorta' match advance to road speed! DON'T just "SET IT & FORGET IT"! Too bad the advance lever is not marked, 10 MPH, 20 MPH, 30 MPH, 40 MPH & "BALLS' OUT"!! When "rookies" watch you doin' this, they think you're a FRIGGIN' GENIUS! Some feel that FULL ADVANCE gives MORE power on hills, WRONG!!--Again, match the ADVANCE to your ROAD speed! Using the advance lever correctly even gives you BETTER gas mileage. Cars with centrifugal advance, do it for you, AUTOMATICALLY! Hope I said all this right, I just BARELY had an ANTI-PAIN PILL & COWBOY COFFEE. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"