Do any of you guys put seatbelts in your '30s Fords?

[cjshaker]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoupe

Not exactly what you asked but I put seat belts into my 1941 Ford. I planned to as soon as I got it, but I dragged my feet a little. One day after working on my car for a bit, I took it for a short test drive and as I pulled out of my alley and turned left the passenger side door popped open. I hadn't shut it properly. The door latches on these cars are crap compared to a modern bear claw latch. Not complaining, that's just a fact. Things have improved a lot in the past 82 years.


No damage to the car. My 50 year-old screw driver rolled out and got some new scratches. Obviously no big deal. Of course, there are so many ways it could have been serious rather than just embarrassing.


I quickly ordered some color samples from Juliano's and ordered set of shoulder belts with lift-latch buckles. To my mind, they're barely noticeable, blend right in, and don't look out of place in my '41 but I feel an order of magnitude safer.


By the way, for maximum safety, you want the third point as high as possible on the b-pillar. I won't go into it here but ask me if you're interested why.

I had seatbelts save me, my wife and daughter once. My daughter was in the back seat and had taken the shoulder belt off, and after a guy blew a stop sigh directly in front of me, I hit him doing 55mph. My daughter had severe lower intestine damage from the lap belt and lost 4' of her lower bowel. She had to be Life Flighted to the hospital to save her life. Their importance is certainly not lost on me.

The door latches were my biggest concern. I know they can pop open very easily in any accident, and remaining inside the car was my main goal with the belt. I don't want to modify the car for claw type latches.

And yes, angles can play a big role in shoulder belts. Your set-up doesn't look bad, that's for sure.

[Karl Wescott]

I have seat belts/shoulder strap in my (fiberglass) roadster. For some reason in the steel reinforcing around the back of the cockpit just below the tack strip there is a 1"x1"x1/4" plate. The geometry for the shoulder strap is not perfect, but in the event of a sever frontal impact I believe some restraint is better than none. "Speed doesn't kill... stopping too quickly does".



I served 40 years as a volunteer firefighter in a district with one US highway (US26) and three major state highways (OR212, OR211, OR224). I have seen many crashes and am of the firm belief that a 3-point harness (at a minimum) is necessary to be prudent if driving at highway speeds.


I think the answer to seat belts/shoulder harness should be not only YES, but He!! YES.

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

I did in both the passenger and rumble. I got my belts from Racer Direct. I got the belts that look like the old military airplane belts. They come in different widths, colors and are made in the USA.

Thank You much, Tim!

[woodiewagon46]

I have them in my '32 roadster (one of your body's Karl #989) and '46 Woodie, both set's were from Juliano's. I would check with my insurance company as to what they think. You never know that if you do have an accident and get hurt you never know what they say about your coverage.

[woodiewagon46]

Sorry, double post.

[B-O-B]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

YUP I even have lap belts in my motorized wheelchair. It is a Quickie Q700M & it is pretty quick. Hotrods also have seatbelts installed. The 34 roadsters are not quite finished yet, but the 32 roadster & 34 5 w have them. I wish they had 3point belts.

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by gwistrup

SolCalCoupe, Do you have any more pictures that show the installation of your three point seat belts? How did you attach the belt to the B pillar and at the base? I was going to put lap belts in my '40 but your three point installation looks very good and is significantly safer.

The part below is the right part. Here's a picture of the b-pillar with the trim removed before installing it. Basically I fitted it up there and held it in place with some string and my fingers then screwed the bolt into the tab. Near the top of the photo you can see a small hole. As I recall, I drilled that out so the big bolt would fit through it. I think it was an original factory mounting point for a strap. It had a tiny nut welded in it. The directions that come with it are reasonably good. As projects go, this one was pretty easy. One of the very few that didn't have any significant complications or surprises.

The bottom of the harness uses an L-bracket to make the 90 degree turn and bolt to the floor pan with a backing plate. You can see the vertical part of the L-bracket in the picture. The bottom part that bolts to the floor pan is under the carpet. The bottom of the lap belt portion just bolts through the floor pan with a backing plate. All the parts come with the kit. It's a good kit.

Originally Posted by Dennisfly

B pillar no-weld mount hardware

https://www.julianos.com/No-Weld-B-p...p/ju010955.htm

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by cjshaker

I had seatbelts save me, my wife and daughter once. My daughter was in the back seat and had taken the shoulder belt off, and after a guy blew a stop sigh directly in front of me, I hit him doing 55mph. My daughter had severe lower intestine damage from the lap belt and lost 4' of her lower bowel. She had to be Life Flighted to the hospital to save her life. Their importance is certainly not lost on me.

The door latches were my biggest concern. I know they can pop open very easily in any accident, and remaining inside the car was my main goal with the belt. I don't want to modify the car for claw type latches.

And yes, angles can play a big role in shoulder belts. Your set-up doesn't look bad, that's for sure.

I'm sorry for your daughter's injury but pleased to know you all survived.


Ditto on modifying the car for claw type latches.


Here's a couple of more pics showing how they look every day. On the one without the lap belts, they're just stuffed between the seat cushions. The picture in a previous post showing the shoulder belts buckled with no passengers was just for demonstration.

[cjshaker]

Thanks, it took a while, but she fully recovered.
That's barely noticeable. It also gives me the idea that I could make an upper bracket with a roller that would have more of a vintage look to it. Something similar to the factory hand straps and brackets used in sedans. All it has to do is hold the belt in place. Making a brace for it wouldn't be hard either, and I have plenty of the shouldered bolts. Thanks for those pics, it gets me to thinking.

[flathead48]

Anyone try hooking this set up in a open car ?

[TomT/Williamsburg]

I use lap belts and anchor them as much as possible …..

[Ken Henry]

SoCalCoupe, I have a similar 3 point install from Julianos in my 51 Tudor, with the shoulder anchor nice and high. I was not able to get it as high on a Corvair hardtop I own, but came across some guidelines that shoulder height or above would be ok. I cant remember the source now and am questioning it now. How low is too low and what problems are you referring to? Thanks!

[John R]

That B-pillar bracket from Juliano's is a great solution for the 35-up cars with metal B-pillars. For a 32 sedan, the B-pillar is mostly solid wood so another solution is needed.

[cjshaker]

Originally Posted by Ken Henry

SoCalCoupe, I have a similar 3 point install from Julianos in my 51 Tudor, with the shoulder anchor nice and high. I was not able to get it as high on a Corvair hardtop I own, but came across some guidelines that shoulder height or above would be ok. I cant remember the source now and am questioning it now. How low is too low and what problems are you referring to? Thanks!

At a minimum, you typically want shoulder belts to be no lower than your shoulder height. NHRA specs call for shoulder height also so that you remain held in your seat without compressing your body. BUT, having them above shoulder height makes them more comfortable, and still effective. It also allows some freedom of movement, which is nicer when driving.

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by Ken Henry

SoCalCoupe, I have a similar 3 point install from Julianos in my 51 Tudor, with the shoulder anchor nice and high. I was not able to get it as high on a Corvair hardtop I own, but came across some guidelines that shoulder height or above would be ok. I cant remember the source now and am questioning it now. How low is too low and what problems are you referring to? Thanks!

Originally Posted by cjshaker

At a minimum, you typically want shoulder belts to be no lower than your shoulder height. NHRA specs call for shoulder height also so that you remain held in your seat without compressing your body. BUT, having them above shoulder height makes them more comfortable, and still effective. It also allows some freedom of movement, which is nicer when driving.

A year an a half ago it was very clear to me after doing some internet research that higher was better. Spent over 2 hours trying to reconstruct that research and now simply can't. Very frustrating.


The gist of it though is that a primary purpose of the lap and shoulder belt is to reduce the crash g-force on the passenger by providing a little elastic 'give'. No seat belt in a 30g crash and you're flung into the dashboard/steeringwheel/windshield at 30g. If you're wearing a 3-point safety harness, it slows you down because the straps are slightly elastic whereas the dashboard isn't. If you visualize yourself strapped to the seat with belts at the same angle as the direction of the car you can imagine them not giving very much and not reducing your g force very much. Whereas, if you visualize yourself strapped to the seat with belts parallel to your spine, you can imagine that they might bow out a bit in a collision, enough to reduce the g-force on you.


Sorry I can't produce the documentation I used a year and a half ago. It does appear that there's a significant difference between the design of a racing safety harness and a three point passenger car harness.


Another reason for the seatbelt and shoulder harness which has already appeared in this thread is to simply keep you inside the car.

[cjshaker]

That is not how belts work. New cars have explosive devices that instantly tighten the belts around you in the event of an accident. The tighter the belt, the safer you are. The amount of elasticity in a belt is miniscule, so it will have no effect on the G-forces felt.


I only mentioned NHRA specs because they have the most stringent rules for safety. Same goes with land speed racers. A 5 point system is the safest. The crotch belt stops "submarining", where you can slide under the lap belt. Each system below that offers less safety. The 3 point is a compromise because in real life, out in public, you need to be able to move for various reasons. Obviously, turning around and checking for side traffic, reversing etc is not something you will worry about on a track. Road racers will have extensive mirror systems to compensate for a lack of being able to look around. That compromise of a 3 point lessens the passengers safety, and that is why they developed auto-belt tensioning devices. In a fraction of a second, they will cinch you tight in your seat.


Everything is a trade-off and compromise. You certainly can't go driving around in public with a 5 point system, so you make compromises. The 3 point is a rational compromise. Moving the shoulder belt higher is another compromise that allows freedom of movement, especially when used with the retractors that allow forward movement, until enough force is applied that they "lock". It also allows for drivers/passengers of differing heights to fit into the same design. The auto-tensioners help correct that compromise in an accident.

[treeman]

Originally Posted by Dennisfly

B pillar no-weld mount hardware



https://www.julianos.com/No-Weld-B-p...p/ju010955.htm

How much interior work is required for installing these?

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by treeman

How much interior work is required for installing these?

The work consists of removing the interior trim to get at the B-pillar, drilling a hole in the B-pillar, fiddling the mount into place, cutting a hole in the trim, installing installing the bolt with the belt and trim, and reinstalling the trim.

[Gary Tosel]

I installed both lap belts and shoulder belts in my 36 Ford 5W Coupe. The roll back is located behind the rear upholstery panel. They work well.

Lap belt anchors through the floor have large washers behind the anchor bolts.

[cjshaker]

That's a clever design on the shoulder belt. Nicely done. Thanks for showing that.