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Old 08-04-2012, 08:25 AM   #1
sphooch
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Question Hot rivet installation

Lets see what kind of help i can get here. I'm gonna install my prefitted floor pans into my 31 roadster, all parts conserned have been primed on all sides.. Any suggestions from expierence , should I remove the primer at the rivet locations and start with bare metal or is it ok to just rivet over the primer [burning the paint away ] and then reprime those areas.Any help will be appreciated. thanks THE HOOCH
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:14 AM   #2
lindy williams
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

floor pans should be riveted cold. see more recent post and comments on this subject.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:58 AM   #3
Marco Tahtaras
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

With a proper rivet gun and waffle set the rivets set like butter when cold. I restored original pans and painted them prior to assembly. I experimented with pre-painting the heads of the rivets and to my surprise only damaged the paint on one rivet head.

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Old 08-04-2012, 04:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

Wow , yours looks great . hope i can do the same. what kind of proper rivet gun are we talking about. and whats the waffle set up . If you can help me out here I sure would appreciate it . thanks .
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

The rivet gun that I bought is a 3X rivet gun that I bought from a company called Aircraft Spruce.
The waffle tool I bought from Snyder's.
I use the waffle tool in the rivet gun on most of the rivets, and I use one of the (oval head shaped) rivet sets that came in the box with the gun, on the other (head) side of the rivet.
I hold the oval head rivet set in an old air hammer.

This is a very simple process, but works best if you have a helper.

Tommy-
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

Rivets changed drastically in composition metallurgy and manufacturing technique after WWII. The old rivets were dead soft out of the box because they were headed hot in manufacturing and the alloy annealed dead soft. They cold-set well with both air and hand tools. Most boxes of new rivets are made by cold-rolling and cold-heading. The result is work-hardened metal, out of the box. That property sometimes makes cold setting difficult. Line them up on a fire brick, heat red with a torch, allow them to air cool. Voila! Annealed. They now cold-set easily, like NOS 20's-30's rivets.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:26 AM   #7
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

Wow, that is sofar the best information I have received. I'm gonna try heating the rivets as soon as possible thanks THE HOOCH
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:27 AM   #8
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

Mike,

Can you tell me the difference of the rivets, before and after annealing, on the
Rockwell?
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:57 AM   #9
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

I knew there had to be a difference in the old and new rivets! I've been working with some NOS rivets, had great luck then went to modern rivets and things were not so easy anymore! Thanks VERY much Mike for helping me out!
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:34 AM   #10
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian View Post
Mike,

Can you tell me the difference of the rivets, before and after annealing, on the
Rockwell?
d.j., I auctioned off my big Rockwell and Brinell floor model hardness tester when I closed up shop 12 years ago. (got $35!! ) If you want to play around and get a feel for the difference, take two grade 2 cold headed 1/4-20 bolts. Heat one bright red, let it cool slowly. Take both to the anvil, hold them sideways (pliers/tongs, not with fingers!) and whack the heads with a hand sledge. You'll see.

It's actually a bit more complicated than just starting hardness. Malleability decreases in a non-linear relation to apparent hardness in metals/alloys that work harden as hammering (cold forging) progresses.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Rivets changed drastically in composition metallurgy and manufacturing technique after WWII. The old rivets were dead soft out of the box because they were headed hot in manufacturing and the alloy annealed dead soft. They cold-set well with both air and hand tools. Most boxes of new rivets are made by cold-rolling and cold-heading. The result is work-hardened metal, out of the box. That property sometimes makes cold setting difficult. Line them up on a fire brick, heat red with a torch, allow them to air cool. Voila! Annealed. They now cold-set easily, like NOS 20's-30's rivets.

As I said in my post above, the 3/16" floor rivets already set like butter cold. Why mess with them?
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras View Post
As I said in my post above, the 3/16" floor rivets already set like butter cold. Why mess with them?
Good advice. I'd suggest test one first if you have a new supply or different supplier. Certainly no need to mess if they are already dead soft.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

I don't have any "general" rivets, just the Cad plated ones from the hardware
store. When I get some general I will Rockwell them both ways and report back...
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

Hey Mikek tried your way of heating the rivets cherry red and letting them cool, I used my $20 rivet gun from harbor freight , It worked perfict, so now i ordered the waffel tool as soon as i get it I'll BE ready to try the real thing. thanks so much , a little good information goes a long way. If the waffel TOOL works, you saved me the cost of a new tool . thanks THE HOOCH
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:40 PM   #15
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Default Re: Hot rivet installation

After reading this thread, I tried setting some of the 3/16 floor pan rivets cold last night. It worked great. Wish I had done it that way sooner.
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