F-1 box on 39 column

[cuzncletus]

I'm gathering parts for my next project, an A-V8 roadster. I have a very good 39 column and box. I can get an F-1 box for free, but the steering shaft on the worm gear has been cut right above the box. Will the worm gear from my 39 box fit in the F-1?

[rotorwrench]

They are the same worm gear for most all Gemmer II type boxes. I would have to do some dimensional checking to make sure the housing is the same where the steering shaft enters the box. The other problem might be the mounting dimension versus length to the column drop so I don't know if the steering shaft from a 37 to 40 ford with cross steer would work on a side steer box set up for your application. You can find steering shafts out there for either application and you might be able to modify the cross steer steering shaft to work. I've seen several modified to fit the Model A successfully and still use the column drop with locking feature.

[Mart]

Get the f1 box. If it is in good condition it is a simple task to splice the two shafts together.

Mart.

[Deuce Man]

Have an F1 box in my Av8 with a 40 jacket and wheel. Simple matter of splicing the top of a 40 shaft to the F1 shaft. Do the splice close to the top so you can run a long drill bit down inside to clean it up for the horn wire. I lowered my column and moved the wheel a little closer to the dash. I wanted to sit low in my car and with the stock steering wheel position I would be looking thru the wheel not over it, Kind of like the majority of the cadillac and Lincoln drivers in my area. feels just right for me. Reds has headers that clear the F1 box perfectly. Rich

[JM 35 Sedan]

I don't have any experience with the F1/F100 steering boxes but I have pressed many '35 to '48 passenger car/light commercial type worms off their steering shafts and pressed the different shafts into '37-'48 worms to build later boxes for the '36 and earlier Fords. I am thinking you may be able to press that cut off F1 shaft out of its worm and press your '39 shaft and the F1 worm together to all work in that AV8 with a '39 column tube and drop. I think if that works I would rather use that approach than welding steering shafts together. JMHO

PS...if the '39 shaft can be pressed into the F1 worm, another thing you could consider is adjusting the length of the '39 shaft to give you the length of column you want/need for your AV8. You can also easily reposition the locking collar on the shaft to whatever position works best with the '39 drop to allow the locking feature to work properly.

[42merc]

The worm gear from your '39 box will work in the F1 box, it's a direct fit.

[Jason in TX]

F1 box shafts are also splined for the truck steering wheel (I know yours is already cut off) but what I'm getting at is that every time you see a hotrod with an f1 box and a passenger steering wheel it means they either spliced the shafts together or pressed on a new worm.

I also know people worry about welding a steering shaft. I don't know why because a young girl can turn the steering wheel. That is very little torque on the shaft so unless your welds totally suck, how are you going to snap a steel weld on a rod that is easy to turn?

[rotorwrench]

A butt splice might work OK but I think an offset joggle spice would be stronger. It's up to the fabricator's preference. A person could also use a thin wall tube over the outside of the original splice and rosette or plug weld the tube overlay for extra strength.

[Krylon32]

When in doubt contact NealinCa over on the HAMB He is the one of the gurus doing early Ford Gemmer style boxes.

[FlatheadTed]

I would go with JMs approach ,You could sleeve it as rotor wrench suggest but over here you would not get that past the transport Nazis ,Any welds need certification by a engineer ,Gem mer suppled the patented box's so the worms are inter changeable .do it once do it right ,I think your compleat 39 shaft will fit the F100

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I don't have any experience with the F1/F100 steering boxes but I have pressed many '35 to '48 passenger car/light commercial type worms off their steering shafts and pressed the different shafts into '37-'48 worms to build later boxes for the '36 and earlier Fords. I am thinking you may be able to press that cut off F1 shaft out of its worm and press your '39 shaft and the F1 worm together to all work in that AV8 with a '39 column tube and drop. I think if that works I would rather use that approach than welding steering shafts together. JMHO

PS...if the '39 shaft can be pressed into the F1 worm, another thing you could consider is adjusting the length of the '39 shaft to give you the length of column you want/need for your AV8. You can also easily reposition the locking collar on the shaft to whatever position works best with the '39 drop to allow the locking feature to work properly.

[42merc]

If the '39 steering shaft happens to be the correct length there is no problem, no welding no nothing. The '39 worm & shaft & sector FIT the F1 steering housing.

[Flat Ernie]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

A butt splice might work OK but I think an offset joggle spice would be stronger. It's up to the fabricator's preference. A person could also use a thin wall tube over the outside of the original splice and rosette or plug weld the tube overlay for extra strength.

I wouldn't use a butt splice by itself, personally, because the shaft is hollow, you can't get much taper on the ends to build up the weld. I might do this in addition to pressing a tube over the outside and rosette welding along with welding the ends of the tube.

Joggle splice also would be dicey because of the hollow shaft...

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Jason in TX

F1 box shafts are also splined for the truck steering wheel (I know yours is already cut off) but what I'm getting at is that every time you see a hotrod with an f1 box and a passenger steering wheel it means they either spliced the shafts together or pressed on a new worm.

I also know people worry about welding a steering shaft. I don't know why because a young girl can turn the steering wheel. That is very little torque on the shaft so unless your welds totally suck, how are you going to snap a steel weld on a rod that is easy to turn?

Not so the early ones are tapered and the later are splined. 50-51 has the splines. I know because I've owned both and tried to swap wheels. It's pretty simple to cut and splice them together. Not a Butt splice, you will need to make a coupler for the outside and butt weld and then add the coupler and weld both ends of that. OR if no horn wire a solid piece of round stock welded at the splice and then plug welded about an inch back on both sides from the joint. MAke sure you or the person doing it is a competent welder.




Tim

[FlatheadTed]

Heres one I am working on it took 20 tons to press off the worm .The shaft will be shortened then the worm will be pressed on again i .I have made up a welding jig to Aline the triangle flange .

[JM 35 Sedan]

A quote from Murphy's Law may apply here: "If there are two or more ways to do something, and one of those ways can result in a catastrophe, then someone will do it."

[FlatheadTed]

Some one here did a Idiot UN joint steering link on a hot rod resulting in a accident .As a result the Govt jumped on the hobby , The hot rod clubs have written a manual on how to do these Mods ,You need to call a Govt roving engineer to certify each Modification ,I noticed on the Ham a Swedish guy had Zedded a chassis with no gussets ,just as well Baseman NZ offed some advice .

[FlatheadTed]

I was shocked to see on the Ham a super bell Axle had broken near the spring perch ,They said they are made from mailable iron ? , not a suitable material ,Ford twisted there drop forged axles like a cork screw to show how Strong they were,

[A bones]

Originally Posted by Jason in TX

I also know people worry about welding a steering shaft. I don't know why because a young girl can turn the steering wheel. That is very little torque on the shaft so unless your welds totally suck, how are you going to snap a steel weld on a rod that is easy to turn?

The problem is fatigue of constant repetitive forces small though they may be. Like water dripping on a rock. Time can cause failure. Steering failure means disaster. So at all cost it should be avoided. Enjoy your day

[Ralph Moore]

If there is enough shaft, I would machine two flats on the shaft and use a Flaming river Double "D" coupler. I am splicing a 41 Pontiac wheel to a 56 Ford box/shaft. Had a guy on the HAMB, Pat Beries(sorry for spelling Pat) that made a shaft for me that fit the Pontiac wheel, If your worried about strength, then weld it as well.
He is great with a Lathe, and very reasonable.

[Johnny-B-Bad]

I beveled the edges of mine then welded. AFter that, ground the weld smooth, slid a piece of dom tube over it and welded it solid