'46 Coupe 59AB Starter

[51woodie]

The starter on my stock 59AB, '46 Super Deluxe, decided it was time to quit. I took it to the local rebuilder, and the diagnosis is that there is a flat spot on the com where there was arcing. The com is also too small in diameter, as a result of many rebuilds over the years. Looking in the Green Bible, I came up with two P/Ns, 18-11002, and 7RA-11002. Which one is correct? I believe that starters, over a span of may years, are interchangeable. What years would be compatible?
Looking at the Bendix, I noted that the stop ring which screws on the end of the assembly was loose. A closer look revealed a series of dates stamped on the periphery of the ring, and the ring was free to unscrew off the housing. Notches on the end of the housing and the nut indicates to me the it should be "staked" to prevent it from coming off, is that correct?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 51woodie

The starter on my stock 59AB, '46 Super Deluxe, decided it was time to quit. I took it to the local rebuilder, and the diagnosis is that there is a flat spot on the com where there was arcing. The com is also too small in diameter, as a result of many rebuilds over the years. Looking in the Green Bible, I came up with two P/Ns, 18-11002, and 7RA-11002. Which one is correct? I believe that starters, over a span of may years, are interchangeable. What years would be compatible?
Looking at the Bendix, I noted that the stop ring which screws on the end of the assembly was loose. A closer look revealed a series of dates stamped on the periphery of the ring, and the ring was free to unscrew off the housing. Notches on the end of the housing and the nut indicates to me the it should be "staked" to prevent it from coming off, is that correct?

[drolston]

Something does not add up. The brushes will wear out but I never heard of the comutator getting so worn down that it could not be put back in service by simply cutting down the insulators between the segments to be mabe 1/32" lower than the copper.



What were the symptom of "failure"? Slow cranking? Sometimes work, sometimes not? Bendix gear jamming? Did the supposed rebuilder have any observations on the condition of the bushings?

[dean333]

Send your starter to Joe at Vintage Voltage in Phoenix, he’ll recondition it.

[cadillac512]

Only generator commutators have the mica cut down between the segments, due to the brushes being carbon and soft. Starter commutators do not require it because the brushes are much harder and wear the mica as they run.

[tubman]

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I thought all V8 starters between '32 and '53 were the same, with the exception of the '51 up automatic transmission units.

My neighbor has a "growler" so I can make sure the armature is OK. Then it's usually just a matter of bushings and brushes. (I have a large supply of both from Rock Auto closing them our really cheap a couple of years ago. The only complication is that you need a LARGE soldering iron to install two of them.)

[51woodie]

Thank you all for the replies. Would someone mind measuring a starter com, so I can check their diameter against my unit. Any idea what the minimum diameter would be? The rebuilder I am dealing with has a growler, so I'll find out if the armature was tested.

[51woodie]

So far, no response to my question about the minimum diameter of the commutator for the starter on my '46 Coupe. I decided to turn it on my lathe, to see what I had for diameter after it "cleaned up". I measured the diameter to be 1.483" prior to turning, and 1.457" after turning. A total of .026" in diameter, which means that the brushes would sit .013" deeper in the brush holders. Will this be an issue with something like brush spring pressure?
It would still be nice if someone had the specs for the com diameter.

[tubman]

IIRC, new brushes are almost an inch long. I have seen starters that worked with the brushes worn down to almost nothing. New brushes should solve this problem. While you're at it, replace the bushings; they're available and cheap (if you haven't already done so).

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 51woodie

So far, no response to my question about the minimum diameter of the commutator for the starter on my '46 Coupe. I decided to turn it on my lathe, to see what I had for diameter after it "cleaned up". I measured the diameter to be 1.483" prior to turning, and 1.457" after turning. A total of .026" in diameter, which means that the brushes would sit .013" deeper in the brush holders. Will this be an issue with something like brush spring pressure?
It would still be nice if someone had the specs for the com diameter.

[cadillac512]

My '41 starter measures 1.527" . I held a caliper set at 1.457" against the commutator end and it sure looks like it'd still work ok. I'd sure run it...nothing to lose (except maybe needing a push start if it ever fails). Bet it works fine.

[51woodie]

cadillac. Thank you for the measurement. I took my armature back to the rebuilder after I turned it, and he put the end cap on with a new brush in the holder, to show me that less than half the brush was captured by the holder. He also said the other issue is that there would be less spring tension on the brushes, that could lead to arcing on the com. He said he would reassemble it for me with new brushes if I couldn't find an original armature, but would not warrant the work. Fortunately, two members of the Southern Ontario EFV8 Club contacted me with offers. You have to love old Ford people.

[Tim Ayers]

I've had great luck with rebuilt starters from NAPA.

[51woodie]

I appreciate the lead Tim, but NAPA Canada doesn't handle those starters.

[1942deluxe]

51woodie, have your local NAPA check part number RAY 2449607. That's the one I used without problems on my 48 59 A-B.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by 51woodie

I appreciate the lead Tim, but NAPA Canada doesn't handle those starters.

Ah, I didn't realize you were in Canada.

[jimvette59]

Hi 51 Woodie, I would use it if it checked out on a growler and new brushes,springs,bushing front and rear, new Bendix. Also a spray can or two of electro clean. JMO.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by jimvette59

Hi 51 Woodie, I would use it if it checked out on a growler and new brushes,springs,bushing front and rear, new Bendix. Also a spray can or two of electro clean. JMO.

I would also use it.

[rotorwrench]

The green bible indicates that the 18-11005 armature was used in starters for the early 8BA (7RA). The number was likely changed later in the 8BA era but they are likely interchangeable. The ones for the cruise-O-matic are different.

[Tim Ayers]

Bushings and brushes are still available from Rock Auto

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...r+bushing,4168

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...ter+brush,4156