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04-11-2024, 07:45 PM | #1 |
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Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
I have the front suspension assembled and brakes installed/adjusted on the estate Model A I've been working on (yay!)
Next step is plumbing the front brakes - they're 46-48 brakes and a Speedway under-floor master cylinder/clutch kit came mounted. I have the hoses for the front brakes, but need to run them back to the master cylinder. Any recommendations on line size and routing? Do i go through the frame for the lines to the hoses or under it? Between the fenders and hood panels, I don't think over the frame will work. I plan on running the line inside the curve of the frame back to the master cylinder. Also think I'll T the lines either at the front end of that run or in the valley of the front crossmember. I suspect I'll need check valves as well, since the wheel cylinders are above the master cylinder. I've custom plumbed the brakes on my 40 Chevy before and those are still working fine. So i have some experience with it, and hopefully still have the flaring tool and bender as well. Any feedback is appreciated. And if someone has a pre-bent kit... Thanks Paul |
04-11-2024, 08:39 PM | #2 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
I would use all 1/4 inch lines and original (or reproduction of original) fittings so you don't get involved with adapters. Look at the fittings and routing for a '39 Ford. Can you post a photo of your master cylinder mounted?
Charlie Stephens Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 04-11-2024 at 08:51 PM. |
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04-12-2024, 05:42 PM | #3 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
As you requested, here's the mounted master cylinder.
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04-12-2024, 05:46 PM | #4 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Well, this was weird, it didn't attach... trying again...
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04-11-2024, 09:45 PM | #5 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
I think Snyder's has a pre bent kit for the Model A. Don't hold me to that but I would go to them first.
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04-11-2024, 11:23 PM | #6 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
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04-11-2024, 11:21 PM | #7 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
The pictures show the way I set up my '32. It involved a piece of angle iron and the original Ford fittings. First the left and then the right side.
Charlie Stephens |
04-12-2024, 05:59 PM | #8 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Thanks. It appears there's no issue with the spring hitting the line. The soft lines that came with it aren't long enough to reach to that spot. I plan to run them to the top shock mount bolt at the bracket with a similar bracket to what you made.
Has there been any issue with running the lines below the frame to cross under? I'm not fond of doing that, but if that's what I need to do... Here's a pic of that: |
04-12-2024, 07:19 AM | #9 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
NiCop (Nickle coper) is the easiest type of line to install, bends easily and is available in various lengths with fittings or on a roll for you to apply fitting and flare. It looks like like copper but is strong enough for brake line pressure.
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04-13-2024, 11:20 AM | #10 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
These are undoubtedly the best lines, but may be hard to find? Use 1/4" so the lines match the wheel cylinders, and a flex line at the m/cyl. and diff. Cut-to- length steel lines are available at most parts stores, do not use copper lines. All lines should be double-flared. Use a tubing bender of some type to avoid kinking the lines. Use care at the rear cylinders as they require a really tight bend. Good luck!
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04-12-2024, 02:52 PM | #11 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Local parts stores carry various lengths of brake line - use 3/16". I like to start with the straight lengths - you only need to cut and flare one end (if any). The coiled stuff takes too much time to get really straight and looking good. You need a bracket (or just drill a hole in the frame) where the flex and hard line meet. Add a couple clips along the length to keep it from rattling. Be sure to do a double flare. Hand shaping is ok for a large radius but you'll want a good tubing bender for the smaller ones. Check (residual) valves are used in disc brake systems to keep the disc pads from retracting too far from the disc and not needed in a drum setup.
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04-12-2024, 06:10 PM | #12 | |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Quote:
On a drum system, the cups in the wheel cylinders will leak unless about 5 lbs. pressure is kept in the system. Thus a residual pressure valve is needed. The shoes will not drag because the shoe return springs easily overcome the 5 lbs. residual pressure. |
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04-14-2024, 05:36 PM | #13 | |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Quote:
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04-15-2024, 05:14 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Quote:
I would suggest that you do an internet search for "Residual pressure brake valves".. You will find a lot of information on the need for residual pressure valves on drum systems (as well as some disc systems). The pressure maintained in the system is only 2 to 10 lbs. so you won't get much of a 'squirt'. Please note that the real experts mention several reasons why residual pressure is needed. |
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04-13-2024, 04:47 PM | #15 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
What do you have (or are planning) on the rear?
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04-13-2024, 06:24 PM | #16 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
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04-13-2024, 06:26 PM | #17 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Follow up question - the car came with a Speedway brake/clutch combo. It's a power master cylinder. Will the flathead 8 have enough vacuum for the brakes?
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04-13-2024, 10:51 PM | #18 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Make sure your brake lines and master cylinder are well clear of your exhaust pipes, or otherwise shielded. Heat will cause the fluid to expand and may cause the brakes to seize. Happened to me.
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04-14-2024, 12:42 AM | #19 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Something else is wrong if your brakes seize from heat! Any pressure buildup from heat will vent into the master cylinder reservoir and out through the cap. Make sure there is about 1/16" free play between the master cyl. piston and the pushrod when the pedal is released.
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04-29-2024, 09:18 PM | #20 |
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Re: Next step - brake lines...30 Tudor - Guidance?
Update:
the front brakes are plumbed. Thanks for all the guidance, it worked out pretty well. I made brackets for the hose/hard line connection out of 1 1/4 x 1/8 bar stock and mounted them on the back of the shock hangers. One interesting challenge was getting the line to the master cylinder. The frame is boxed for the master cylinder and clutch cylinder set and then a few inches away for the rear ladder bar mount. I had to route the line through that hole and around the clutch cylinder, then cut and flare the line at just the right spot - reaching through the floor. |
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