Repairing cracks in 21" spoked wheels

[krmoran2000]

As a first item of restoration, I removed my spoked wheels from my 29 Model A to take the to the local power coating company. We noticed at least three of the wheels have some minor cracks at the hub where the spokes come to the center. The guy who power coats says he see this very often with the old wheels and said they could be repaired by a welder. He said they should be brazed to prevent heat cracks. Does this make sense? Any suggestions on repair methods? Thanks

[34Fordtk]

In my .02 pick up anouther set of wheels....they are not that much to risk it over. And if you do fix em dont braze........

[silvertop]

Have them tig welded by a qualified welder, brazing a butt weld is a bad idea, particularly on a wheel.

[ford1]

you can use your wire welder to repair the cracks, clean around the cracks , then use a 3 or 4 sided hand file to v the crack slightly on both sides of the wheel, welding the crack from the back side allows you to file smooth the crack on the out side of the rim

[Benson]

If wheels are cracked , it might be good to check and be sure that you do not have Early AR wheels on later B hubs or later B wheels on AR hubs before spending money to powder coat wheels.

See Service bulletins page 328.

Originally Posted by krmoran2000

As a first item of restoration, I removed my spoked wheels from my 29 Model A to take the to the local power coating company. We noticed at least three of the wheels have some minor cracks at the hub where the spokes come to the center. The guy who power coats says he see this very often with the old wheels and said they could be repaired by a welder. He said they should be brazed to prevent heat cracks. Does this make sense? Any suggestions on repair methods? Thanks

[wrndln]

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I do what Ford1 does. The only difference from what Ford1 does is I use a small carbide cutter (on an air tool) to V the crack. It goes a lot faster. I usually use repaired rims as spares, but I would not be afraid to run them either. I usually only repair rims with one crack, no more. I once repaired a rim for a friend with three cracks in it. I would not have used a rim like that, but he wanted it repaired.
Rusty Nelson

[Fred K-OR]

I also did much as Ford1 did except I used a gas welder and did it from the back. Not knowing any better, this is what I did. So far so good-the cracks or new ones have not come back.

But I would think the method of repair might be determined by what you want to use the car for. If you wanted to use it as a touring car you may want better wheels than if you just wanted a driver around town.

[2manycars]

I suggest welding from both sides, after making a V on both sides. Your chance for complete penetration of weld is better from both sides. It is a pain to finish off the weld, but it will stand a better chance of not recracking.

[krmoran2000]

Originally Posted by Benson

If wheels are cracked , it might be good to check and be sure that you do not have Early AR wheels on later B hubs or later B wheels on AR hubs before spending money to powder coat wheels.

See Service bulletins page 328.

Benson, Thanks for your reply. unfortunately, currently, I do not have the service bulletin you mentioned and I was not aware of the two types. I figured if they were 21 inch, that they were the correct size and wheels for the car. I have searched the web for a quick answer. Can you or anybody else summarize the differences between the AR and the B and maybe how to tell the difference?

[krmoran2000]

If I have a 1929 Briggs Town Sedan 155-B would it not require the later BR Wheels?

It is possible I have the earlier AR wheels. Is there a way to tell the difference in the wheels? My "Collectors Originality Guide" by Schild, page 12, says the earlier wheels (AR) has an 1 3/16" wide inner flange.

Is this the center where the spokes come together on the outter part of the rim or are they referencing a location on the hub?

[Benson]

Originally Posted by krmoran2000

Benson, Thanks for your reply. unfortunately, currently, I do not have the service bulletin you mentioned and I was not aware of the two types. I figured if they were 21 inch, that they were the correct size and wheels for the car. I have searched the web for a quick answer. Can you or anybody else summarize the differences between the AR and the B and maybe how to tell the difference?

See attachment below for Service bulletin Pg 328

The distance they refer to is the Horizontal piece near the TOP heavy black arrow in figure 661.

A newer wheel shell measures 1 3/8ths inches. Older is somewhat less not sure how much.
Correction: this number is in error I measured a 19 inch wheel
by mistake ... sorry for confusion

01-15-12:
Additional information:

1. I measured an early AR wheel. it is 1 inch from flat surface that contacts the brake drum to the point where the radius just starts.

2. Later wheel measures 1 3/8ths inches.

Service bulletins is a good book to have ... it is the first book I bought 50 years ago ... carried a paper back copy in car incase of a breakdown on side of the road...

www.Modelastore.com

carries both the hardback and 8 1/2 by 11 copies.

The Les Andrews "shop manual" vol #1 is good also...

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by krmoran2000

Benson, Thanks for your reply. unfortunately, currently, I do not have the service bulletin you mentioned and I was not aware of the two types. I figured if they were 21 inch, that they were the correct size and wheels for the car. I have searched the web for a quick answer. Can you or anybody else summarize the differences between the AR and the B and maybe how to tell the difference?

I had both types on my 29 coupe I bought last May. If I remember the center hub (where the spokes tie into measure about 1 1/4 inch on the 28 type wheel and about 1 1/2 inch on the wheel. My estimated measurements may be off from the actual but the point is that the 28 in narrower than the 29. Both are 21 inch but two different center hubs. Benson put a PDF on that shows what I am talking about. If you don't understand my rambling, PM me and I will try to explain more.

[krmoran2000]

Sorry if this a repeat. Not sure if the earlier posted.

The Figures 661 and 662 that Benson sent. Is this the front hubs or rear. My front hubs have a taper like shown in Fig. 662 while the rear hubs are as shown in Fig. 661. I cannot measure the wheels because they are being sand blasted.

I can see from the figure why the wrong wheel will crack from stress if not matched correctly.

As a Colorado kid watching the playoff game, I have to say, GO TEBOW AND BRONCOS! Thanks Kevin

[poweredbylincoln]

becareful welding n heating can throw them out of balance...id be awful careful how much heat u apply n then spin them after to see they run true

[Benson]

Additional information:

1. I measured an early AR wheel. it is 1 inch from flat surface that contacts the brake drum to the point where the radius just starts.

2. Later wheel measures 1 3/8ths inches.

[krmoran2000]

Thanks Benson - Based on the measurement, I have the later wheels. I also put some tape with dots of wet paint on the back of the wheels and put the wheel on the drums. I confrirmed contact at the outer flange and the wet paint was tansfered to the drums. I know the wheels are making contact in both places. I now know I have the correct wheels, just that three of them are cracked.

I am taking the advice of most of the replies and I am not going to weld the wheels. Currently saving and looking for three 21" B wheels.

[Fred K-OR]

If you have access to a welder, you may still want to weld them. I know the ones I welded are doing just fine on my huckster. I can run it at 40-50 MPH with no shake of anykind from the wheels. It would seem like if you do have the welder, you would not be out much if they didn't work out. But it is your call and good luck with it.