The Ford Barn

wingski · 09-03-2017, 10:53 AM

Now here’s a weird question. I’m 73 and have lots of damage to both of my shoulders from wrestling, racing, and being stupid. I’m very concerned about even driving my ’29 cabriolet. That steering is stiff as all get out, and I’ve really got to watch it while using my right hand to turn that wheel. I know I’m going to have to put a squirrel knob on the steering wheel, but I don’t want to mess it up with clamp marks. Have any of you with shoulder problems found out that you couldn’t drive your A without doing more damage to your shoulders?

Marshall V. Daut · 09-03-2017, 11:23 AM

I usually don't recommend changing to a modern steering box (such as offered by Randy Gross) because a properly rebuilt original Model A steering system with a couple upgrades (shortened pitman arm, teflon steering plugs) works very well and should not be stiff. The two-tooth design is better than the seven-tooth all the way around, but sometimes we're stuck with what the car is supposed to have (1928 to mid-1929 seven-tooths). But in your case, going the Randy Gross route might be best. Just be sure to keep your original steering unit for the next owner.
Since you have a '29 Cabriolet, your car could have either of these two designs. The early ones had the seven-tooth, while the later Cabriolets should have the two-tooth. Stiff steering is generally a complaint with the two-tooth design because they have been improperly adjusted or someone used chassis grease instead of the proper lube. If you have a seven-tooth system, there is not much you can adjust to ease steering, other than those two aftermarket upgrades I mentioned. A two-tooth box offers four adjustments to allow for wear and to make steering easier. Before you make the change to a modern steering box, determine which system you have. Then have a Model A guy make adjustments if you have a two-tooth. The stiff steering may just be as simple as making these adjustments and using the proper lube.
By the way, do not judge stiff steering while the car is sitting still. Unlike modern cars, you need to be moving in order for the steering to be relatively easy. Also, ensure your tire pressure is at least 34psi. Have the Model A guy check tie rod and drag link end plugs to make sure someone didn't over-tighten them in an effort to stop shimmying. The list goes on and on. There IS a reason your steering is stiff. Find it before buying a modern conversion. With everything checked out and you're still unhappy, then give Randy Gross a call, NOT the other guy offering nightmare conversions. (See the MANY complaints in Fordbarn's Discussion Board archives)
Marshall

Slowplane · 09-03-2017, 11:26 AM

Possibly a shortened pitman arm (common, and available from the vendors) will lessen the steering effort. just a thought....

wingski · 09-03-2017, 11:36 AM

Marshall, how do I identify the two tooth from the seven tooth? Since my body was manufactured 7-22-29, I know it's late, but i have no idea what everything else is.

mike657894 · 09-03-2017, 11:39 AM

while in movement my steering is very easy. you may need to work on your steering box. i have a 30.

Marshall V. Daut · 09-03-2017, 11:47 AM

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"Wingski" -
Oh, yes! I now recall your manufacturing date from another thread. 'Sorry.
My guess is your car was made well into the two-tooth conversion period, so you probably have a two-tooth. As mentioned, I generally don't hear about stiff steering with seven-tooth boxes, just a lot of unadjustable play at the steering wheel. That your steering is stiff tells me you have an improperly adjusted two-tooth box. Either post a photo of the steering box or tell us if you see three nuts (there are actually four, but you can't see the bottom one) on the box side facing the fender. Also, is there a collar just above the steering box? You should be able to see two bolts w/nuts on the underside of the steering tube just above the steering box. This is a two-tooth unit.
If the steering box is devoid of any of these features and just has a zerk fitting on top, it's seven-tooth unit. It looks rather plain.
Marshall

Marshall V. Daut · 09-03-2017, 12:22 PM

Here's what a two-tooth box looks like.
Marshall

BILL WILLIAMSON · 09-03-2017, 02:06 PM

OFTEN, there comes a time when we should SELL our car. I'm in the process of doing that!
Bill Practical

wingski · 09-03-2017, 03:24 PM

Holy crap, Marshall. That is beautiful. Mine is definitely a seven tooth.

wingski · 09-03-2017, 03:39 PM

Bill, I just lost my best friend of sixty years. He was in the same kind of pain that I’m in because of arthritus and previous injuries, and he was so lonely. I tried so hard to get him to buy an old car project, and he listened, but couldn’t find the energy to do it. He'd still be here if he had. Make very sure that you don’t need that car to love, work on, keep your spirits up, and sometime cuss at it. I don’t care if you are 100 years old, walking out to that car and wiping it down and just admiring it is priceless and no money can replace that.

29spcoupe · 09-03-2017, 03:53 PM

Wingski, I am 67 and have a bad shoulder that has undergone 2 surgeries (both failed). The steering on my car was so stiff that I needed Percocet every time I drove it. I bought a rebuilt steering column from Snyder's, put on a short pitman arm, and replaced all the steering balls and now it steers like a dream. Don't give up. John

wingski · 09-03-2017, 04:02 PM

Another thing. When I get up in the morning I’m in agony until the medications I’m on start working. However, while I’m waiting for that to happen, I log onto the Ford Barn, eat my oatmeal, and read and write comments and questions. During this time I know that I've got another exciting project waiting out there in the garage. My model A doesn't talk about religion, politics, or anything else that causes me stress. And, the Ford Barn has kind of taken the place of those friends who are no longer here. I can’t put into words what you guys mean to me. Thanks again.

wingski · 09-03-2017, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 29spcoupe

Wingski, I am 67 and have a bad shoulder that has undergone 2 surgeries (both failed). The steering on my car was so stiff that I needed Percocet every time I drove it. I bought a rebuilt steering column from Snyder's, put on a short pitman arm, and replaced all the steering balls and now it steers like a dream. Don't give up. John

Another thing. When I get up in the morning I’m in agony until the medications I’m on start working. However, while I’m waiting for that to happen, I log onto the Ford Barn, eat my oatmeal, and read and write comments and ask questions. All this time, I know that I have another exciting project out in the garage that won’t talk about politics, religion, or anything else that can stress me out. That project on the A is going to make me so sore and so tired, but it will make me look forward to the next one. At the same time, you guys in the Ford Barn have kind of taken the place of those friends of mine who are no longer here. I can’t put into words what that means to me. Thanks again.

Big hammer · 09-03-2017, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingski

Holy crap, Marshall. That is beautiful. Mine is definitely a seven tooth.

And I like the motor, frame, and everything in the picture! :-)

Marshall V. Daut · 09-03-2017, 05:27 PM

I don't wish to hijack this thread, but since two comments have been made about the chassis I built for a local car dealer for display in his museum, I'll post a couple more photos of it here. He wanted a quasi-beefed up chassis without straying too far from the Model A's basic character. Hence, the Thomas head and Weber carb, but Model A components the rest of the way, even though the tranny is a '39 with synchros. I put these views up last year when the chassis was completed, so it may seem like a re-run to some readers.
Marshall

Jeff in BC · 09-03-2017, 05:50 PM

I love the "GO-FAST" red. Beautiful job.
Jeff

Charlie Stephens · 09-03-2017, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingski

Now here’s a weird question. I’m 73 and have lots of damage to both of my shoulders from wrestling, racing, and being stupid. I’m very concerned about even driving my ’29 cabriolet. That steering is stiff as all get out, and I’ve really got to watch it while using my right hand to turn that wheel. I know I’m going to have to put a squirrel knob on the steering wheel, but I don’t want to mess it up with clamp marks. Have any of you with shoulder problems found out that you couldn’t drive your A without doing more damage to your shoulders?

I am also 73. I would go with the steering from Randy Gross, (714) 292-8660, [email protected] Add your general location to your profile and maybe someone can recommend someone to install it.

Charlie Stephens

wingski · 09-03-2017, 07:35 PM

Thanks Charlie, I still do all my own work because I love the challenge. There are just certain things I can't do anymore. But hey, I find another way. It might be slow, but it gets done. Turning a door knob and cranking on a steering wheel are two big no-no's.

wingski · 09-03-2017, 07:37 PM

Marshall, that truly is a work of art. I hope you appreciate your ability to create cool things.

daveymc29 · 09-03-2017, 07:44 PM

I suffered injury requiring surgery on both shoulders. I also suffer from arthritis in my hands and wrists as well as back and neck. Misspent youth, riding horses, cows and generally playing cowboy, then a career as a fireman. Now I pay the price. I have a roadster that I drive almost daily so I installed a 56 F1 steering box and a short pitman arm. That combo makes it almost like power steering. That is as long as you have a bit of motion before you try to steer. I also run 600 X 16 tire so I'm not fighting the grooves in the road. It is doable.

09-03-2017, 10:53 AM	#1
wingski Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Cave Junction, Oregon Posts: 432	weak shoulders Now here’s a weird question. I’m 73 and have lots of damage to both of my shoulders from wrestling, racing, and being stupid. I’m very concerned about even driving my ’29 cabriolet. That steering is stiff as all get out, and I’ve really got to watch it while using my right hand to turn that wheel. I know I’m going to have to put a squirrel knob on the steering wheel, but I don’t want to mess it up with clamp marks. Have any of you with shoulder problems found out that you couldn’t drive your A without doing more damage to your shoulders?

09-03-2017, 11:23 AM	#2
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,163	Re: weak shoulders I usually don't recommend changing to a modern steering box (such as offered by Randy Gross) because a properly rebuilt original Model A steering system with a couple upgrades (shortened pitman arm, teflon steering plugs) works very well and should not be stiff. The two-tooth design is better than the seven-tooth all the way around, but sometimes we're stuck with what the car is supposed to have (1928 to mid-1929 seven-tooths). But in your case, going the Randy Gross route might be best. Just be sure to keep your original steering unit for the next owner. Since you have a '29 Cabriolet, your car could have either of these two designs. The early ones had the seven-tooth, while the later Cabriolets should have the two-tooth. Stiff steering is generally a complaint with the two-tooth design because they have been improperly adjusted or someone used chassis grease instead of the proper lube. If you have a seven-tooth system, there is not much you can adjust to ease steering, other than those two aftermarket upgrades I mentioned. A two-tooth box offers four adjustments to allow for wear and to make steering easier. Before you make the change to a modern steering box, determine which system you have. Then have a Model A guy make adjustments if you have a two-tooth. The stiff steering may just be as simple as making these adjustments and using the proper lube. By the way, do not judge stiff steering while the car is sitting still. Unlike modern cars, you need to be moving in order for the steering to be relatively easy. Also, ensure your tire pressure is at least 34psi. Have the Model A guy check tie rod and drag link end plugs to make sure someone didn't over-tighten them in an effort to stop shimmying. The list goes on and on. There IS a reason your steering is stiff. Find it before buying a modern conversion. With everything checked out and you're still unhappy, then give Randy Gross a call, NOT the other guy offering nightmare conversions. (See the MANY complaints in Fordbarn's Discussion Board archives) Marshall

09-03-2017, 11:26 AM	#3
Slowplane Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sonora desert, Arizona Posts: 290	Re: weak shoulders Possibly a shortened pitman arm (common, and available from the vendors) will lessen the steering effort. just a thought.... __________________ ______________ Nothing Short of Right is Right

09-03-2017, 11:36 AM	#4
wingski Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Cave Junction, Oregon Posts: 432	Re: weak shoulders Marshall, how do I identify the two tooth from the seven tooth? Since my body was manufactured 7-22-29, I know it's late, but i have no idea what everything else is.

09-03-2017, 11:39 AM	#5
mike657894 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bay City Michigan Posts: 1,050	Re: weak shoulders while in movement my steering is very easy. you may need to work on your steering box. i have a 30.

09-03-2017, 11:47 AM	#6
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,163	Re: weak shoulders Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) "Wingski" - Oh, yes! I now recall your manufacturing date from another thread. 'Sorry. My guess is your car was made well into the two-tooth conversion period, so you probably have a two-tooth. As mentioned, I generally don't hear about stiff steering with seven-tooth boxes, just a lot of unadjustable play at the steering wheel. That your steering is stiff tells me you have an improperly adjusted two-tooth box. Either post a photo of the steering box or tell us if you see three nuts (there are actually four, but you can't see the bottom one) on the box side facing the fender. Also, is there a collar just above the steering box? You should be able to see two bolts w/nuts on the underside of the steering tube just above the steering box. This is a two-tooth unit. If the steering box is devoid of any of these features and just has a zerk fitting on top, it's seven-tooth unit. It looks rather plain. Marshall

09-03-2017, 02:06 PM	#8
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: weak shoulders OFTEN, there comes a time when we should SELL our car. I'm in the process of doing that! Bill Practical __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

09-03-2017, 03:24 PM	#9
wingski Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Cave Junction, Oregon Posts: 432	Re: weak shoulders Holy crap, Marshall. That is beautiful. Mine is definitely a seven tooth.

09-03-2017, 03:39 PM	#10
wingski Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Cave Junction, Oregon Posts: 432	Re: weak shoulders Bill, I just lost my best friend of sixty years. He was in the same kind of pain that I’m in because of arthritus and previous injuries, and he was so lonely. I tried so hard to get him to buy an old car project, and he listened, but couldn’t find the energy to do it. He'd still be here if he had. Make very sure that you don’t need that car to love, work on, keep your spirits up, and sometime cuss at it. I don’t care if you are 100 years old, walking out to that car and wiping it down and just admiring it is priceless and no money can replace that.

09-03-2017, 03:53 PM	#11
29spcoupe Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Rhinebeck, NY Posts: 763	Re: weak shoulders Wingski, I am 67 and have a bad shoulder that has undergone 2 surgeries (both failed). The steering on my car was so stiff that I needed Percocet every time I drove it. I bought a rebuilt steering column from Snyder's, put on a short pitman arm, and replaced all the steering balls and now it steers like a dream. Don't give up. John

09-03-2017, 04:02 PM	#12
wingski Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Cave Junction, Oregon Posts: 432	Re: weak shoulders Another thing. When I get up in the morning I’m in agony until the medications I’m on start working. However, while I’m waiting for that to happen, I log onto the Ford Barn, eat my oatmeal, and read and write comments and questions. During this time I know that I've got another exciting project waiting out there in the garage. My model A doesn't talk about religion, politics, or anything else that causes me stress. And, the Ford Barn has kind of taken the place of those friends who are no longer here. I can’t put into words what you guys mean to me. Thanks again.

09-03-2017, 05:50 PM	#16
Jeff in BC Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Richmond BC Posts: 57	Re: weak shoulders I love the "GO-FAST" red. Beautiful job. Jeff

09-03-2017, 07:35 PM	#18
wingski Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Cave Junction, Oregon Posts: 432	Re: weak shoulders Thanks Charlie, I still do all my own work because I love the challenge. There are just certain things I can't do anymore. But hey, I find another way. It might be slow, but it gets done. Turning a door knob and cranking on a steering wheel are two big no-no's.

09-03-2017, 07:37 PM	#19
wingski Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Cave Junction, Oregon Posts: 432	Re: weak shoulders Marshall, that truly is a work of art. I hope you appreciate your ability to create cool things.

09-03-2017, 07:44 PM	#20
daveymc29 BANNED Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,557	Re: weak shoulders I suffered injury requiring surgery on both shoulders. I also suffer from arthritis in my hands and wrists as well as back and neck. Misspent youth, riding horses, cows and generally playing cowboy, then a career as a fireman. Now I pay the price. I have a roadster that I drive almost daily so I installed a 56 F1 steering box and a short pitman arm. That combo makes it almost like power steering. That is as long as you have a bit of motion before you try to steer. I also run 600 X 16 tire so I'm not fighting the grooves in the road. It is doable.