The Ford Barn

Skrain · 11-02-2013, 07:09 PM

While working under the 29 today, I noticed that the ball at the end of the front radius rods seems to just be floating in the mount on the bottom of the transmission. What's the best way to eliminate the loose play in the mount?

jmeckel · 11-02-2013, 07:16 PM

The perfect answer is weld on a new one, next would be use the cupped washers method to take up the wore space, or the other option is the rubber ball with new caps kit. Mine came with the rubber ball method installed, I replaced the ball and it works great. Many here will tell you the rubber ball is a bad idea........do what you want. Once you do one of the options you will find it steers much better.

glenn in camino · 11-02-2013, 07:38 PM

Don't go the rubber ball route. I think I'd use the washer to take up the space or have the worn area built up with weld and file/grind it as close to round as you can. Welding on a new ball makes the part 2 pieces glued together. Perhaps a certified, well insured, welder could do a good job, but that might be expensive.

Kahuna · 11-02-2013, 07:54 PM

Glenn
Why not use the rubber ball?
After 1931, Ford used them up thru 48.

Tom Wesenberg · 11-02-2013, 08:15 PM

It almost sounds like you have the cast iron cups made for the rubber ball, but the rubber ball cover is missing. My car had a cast cap and rubber ball, but I removed the rubber cover and installed a new Bratton's steel kit back in 1992. Everything fit great and the wear on the ball wasn't enough to matter. It it was too worn I would have added the cupped washer, then some day when I have it apart to restore it I would weld up the ball and file it round.

Joe K · 11-02-2013, 09:07 PM

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The extra thickness of the rubber ball system makes the front axle camber/caster whatever (I'm not up on the terms except "toe-in") a little different from the original design.

Getting past the wear issue (the rubber balls DO wear in maybe 5 years - but they're cheap and easy to replace) this difference in the front axle mount MAY make a difference in how it feels and handles.

But I've driven both - first one and then the other on the SAME car. And then changed back. And I feel no difference.

I would say use the rubber ball mount until you want to take the front end down and "restore" it. Until then DRIVE.

And keep an eye out for wear on that rubber ball. But no more than keeping an eye out for wear on the original system.

It's called being "mechanically aware."

Joe K

Skrain · 11-03-2013, 06:27 AM

Is the "Rubber Ball" something that slips over the original steel ball like a cover, or is it a replacement for the entire ball, or what?

Sorry, but I'm not too familiar with all the bits and pieces of the underside.

I have seen the cupped washers in the various parts catalogs, and they look fairly easy to install, just take the bottom off the mount, and slip the washer inside, and put it back together. Correct?

Patrick L. · 11-03-2013, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skrain

Is the "Rubber Ball" something that slips over the original steel ball like a cover, or is it a replacement for the entire ball, or what?

Sorry, but I'm not too familiar with all the bits and pieces of the underside.

I have seen the cupped washers in the various parts catalogs, and they look fairly easy to install, just take the bottom off the mount, and slip the washer inside, and put it back together. Correct?

No, both are different. I guess one easy way to see the difference is to look at the 'A' venders parts books. Most have an exploded view of most things Model A, including both those assemblies.

Tom Wesenberg · 11-03-2013, 07:45 AM

Yes, the rubber ball is just a slip over cover, but the top and bottom original stamped steel cups are replaced with cast iron cups with a larger opening for the larger diameter rubber ball cover. It's quite easy to switch back to the original, just buy the kit, and buy the extra washer if needed to take up wear.

Purdy Swoft · 11-03-2013, 11:24 AM

Not tring to rub anybody the wrong way. Common sense tells me that metal to metal contact wears quickly, this is plain to see. Not only did the radius ball wear out quickly , the original setup with springs between the bottom cup and nuts was prone to shimmy usder certain conditions. Ford must have realized this when they changed to the rubber ball setup in 1932 and used it through 1948 when the wishbone type radius rods were no longer used. Every model A that I have owned had the improved rubber ball setup. Ford sold the rubber ball setup as a replacement. I've used the rubber ball setup since 1960 with good service. A lot of the replacement rubber ball covers were made from live rubber and didn't hold up well like the neoprene balls. It is only reasonable that rubber parts will need replacement from time to time. Replaceing the rubber ball cover is a simple job. The rubber ball does a good job taking up the slack caused by a worn radius ball , unless the ball is worn out completely. I really can't understand the big deal that some make over a common sense improvement that doesn't even show. Some no doubt want to sell parts and services. I'm glad that I can do my own. If needed I weld and grind the ball back to shape and then use the rubber ball setup.

Bob C · 11-03-2013, 12:36 PM

This is the original setup.

11-02-2013, 07:09 PM	#1
Skrain Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Monticello, Kentucky Posts: 284	Front Radius Rods Question While working under the 29 today, I noticed that the ball at the end of the front radius rods seems to just be floating in the mount on the bottom of the transmission. What's the best way to eliminate the loose play in the mount? __________________ "They can make me grow older, but they CAN'T make me grow up!"

11-02-2013, 07:16 PM	#2
jmeckel Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Luck WI Posts: 550	Re: Front Radius Rods Question The perfect answer is weld on a new one, next would be use the cupped washers method to take up the wore space, or the other option is the rubber ball with new caps kit. Mine came with the rubber ball method installed, I replaced the ball and it works great. Many here will tell you the rubber ball is a bad idea........do what you want. Once you do one of the options you will find it steers much better. __________________ Jon "If you choose to not decide, you still have made a choice!" RUSH Don't tell me what you know..... Tell me what you have done.

11-02-2013, 07:38 PM	#3
glenn in camino Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camino, CA. Posts: 3,086	Re: Front Radius Rods Question Don't go the rubber ball route. I think I'd use the washer to take up the space or have the worn area built up with weld and file/grind it as close to round as you can. Welding on a new ball makes the part 2 pieces glued together. Perhaps a certified, well insured, welder could do a good job, but that might be expensive.

11-02-2013, 07:54 PM	#4
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: Front Radius Rods Question Glenn Why not use the rubber ball? After 1931, Ford used them up thru 48.

11-02-2013, 08:15 PM	#5
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Front Radius Rods Question It almost sounds like you have the cast iron cups made for the rubber ball, but the rubber ball cover is missing. My car had a cast cap and rubber ball, but I removed the rubber cover and installed a new Bratton's steel kit back in 1992. Everything fit great and the wear on the ball wasn't enough to matter. It it was too worn I would have added the cupped washer, then some day when I have it apart to restore it I would weld up the ball and file it round.

11-02-2013, 09:07 PM	#6
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Front Radius Rods Question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The extra thickness of the rubber ball system makes the front axle camber/caster whatever (I'm not up on the terms except "toe-in") a little different from the original design. Getting past the wear issue (the rubber balls DO wear in maybe 5 years - but they're cheap and easy to replace) this difference in the front axle mount MAY make a difference in how it feels and handles. But I've driven both - first one and then the other on the SAME car. And then changed back. And I feel no difference. I would say use the rubber ball mount until you want to take the front end down and "restore" it. Until then DRIVE. And keep an eye out for wear on that rubber ball. But no more than keeping an eye out for wear on the original system. It's called being "mechanically aware." Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

11-03-2013, 06:27 AM	#7
Skrain Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Monticello, Kentucky Posts: 284	Re: Front Radius Rods Question Is the "Rubber Ball" something that slips over the original steel ball like a cover, or is it a replacement for the entire ball, or what? Sorry, but I'm not too familiar with all the bits and pieces of the underside. I have seen the cupped washers in the various parts catalogs, and they look fairly easy to install, just take the bottom off the mount, and slip the washer inside, and put it back together. Correct? __________________ "They can make me grow older, but they CAN'T make me grow up!"

11-03-2013, 07:45 AM	#9
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Front Radius Rods Question Yes, the rubber ball is just a slip over cover, but the top and bottom original stamped steel cups are replaced with cast iron cups with a larger opening for the larger diameter rubber ball cover. It's quite easy to switch back to the original, just buy the kit, and buy the extra washer if needed to take up wear.

11-03-2013, 11:24 AM	#10
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Front Radius Rods Question Not tring to rub anybody the wrong way. Common sense tells me that metal to metal contact wears quickly, this is plain to see. Not only did the radius ball wear out quickly , the original setup with springs between the bottom cup and nuts was prone to shimmy usder certain conditions. Ford must have realized this when they changed to the rubber ball setup in 1932 and used it through 1948 when the wishbone type radius rods were no longer used. Every model A that I have owned had the improved rubber ball setup. Ford sold the rubber ball setup as a replacement. I've used the rubber ball setup since 1960 with good service. A lot of the replacement rubber ball covers were made from live rubber and didn't hold up well like the neoprene balls. It is only reasonable that rubber parts will need replacement from time to time. Replaceing the rubber ball cover is a simple job. The rubber ball does a good job taking up the slack caused by a worn radius ball , unless the ball is worn out completely. I really can't understand the big deal that some make over a common sense improvement that doesn't even show. Some no doubt want to sell parts and services. I'm glad that I can do my own. If needed I weld and grind the ball back to shape and then use the rubber ball setup.