Mechanical OR Electrical FAILURE

[Roadster62]

What causes most Model A Fords to die? As found "Barn Finds", current restorations that "quit", whatever. My guess is ELECTRICAL, not too many connecting rods flying out the side of the block these days. Bob

[Tiny]

Loose nuts behind the wheel. Usually.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Roadster62

What causes most Model A Fords to die? As found "Barn Finds", current restorations that "quit", whatever. My guess is ELECTRICAL, not too many connecting rods flying out the side of the block these days. Bob

Unless they are driving on the Blue Ridge Parkway tour!!

.

[MikeK]

When you say 'Die' does that mean short term or long term? I think the answer is different for each.

Short term probably electrical. From all the A's I've seen I would classify the electrical system integrity as rotten in 90%, good in 9% and excellent in 1%. Although most A guys are fairly clueless with electrical systems, electrical repair is all external. Just a simple toolbox job and the clueless can usually find someone to poke in there help. You could R&R every last electrical wire, switch, device and part on an A in a single day. The heaviest things you would lift would be the generator, starter, and battery, all easily accessable. The parts are also the cheapest. You could replace everything for much less than the cost of a major mechanical assembly rebuild.

Long term probably mechanical. Most A's get sidelined long-term because the owner does not want to tackle R&R of engines, tranny's, axles, gas tanks, bad brakes, or does not want to spend the capital to have the work properly done. Mechanical rarely causes a catastrophic failure. The owner limps with it 'till it is finally too bad to drive, then it gets parked. Someone else dusts it off and buys it years later, hoping it only needs a battery, clean points and plugs. Then the cycle repeats.

[Fred]

BOTH, When people "TRY" and make better than the way it was made !!..

[H. L. Chauvin]

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I'' plead the 5th on answering about Model A deaths.

If Government finds out that a Model A can die on a Federal Highway, we may be forced to buy Federal Model A Life Insurance -- then after MAFCA objection, it can go to the present Supreme Court where it will be classified as a Tax & be mandatory for all Model A owners.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Fred

BOTH, When people "TRY" and make better than the way it was made !!..

And how many "hidden" improved parts do you use, Fred?? Thermostats are a GREAT thing & greasless, leakless waterpumps & even "stock" type condensors & radiator hoses & tires are much better now! Get real, Fred. Bill W.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

And how many "hidden" improved parts do you use, Fred?? Thermostats are a GREAT thing & greasless, leakless waterpumps & even "stock" type condensors & radiator hoses & tires are much better now! Get real, Fred. Bill W.

But see Bill, your very comments is what causes confusion!! Nothing you said could be further than the truth in reality, ...it just seems believable to you so you blurted it out.

Taking for example your last two. Hoses are not better today, they are worse. The original hoses were made from natural rubber, --not synthetic. Same applies with tires.

Your comment about the condensors is untruthful too. Yes, media hype has convinced you that the new Burn-proof condensor is better than the original condensor but that is not an accurate statement either. The Ford-made condensors are/were a better product than the new condensors, but the new condensors are a better product than the Argentiean-made, and the cheap ones that surfaced during the 40's thru the 70's that many people had. Therefore an aftermarket item is what tarnished the reputation of the original Ford-made item.

Now as far as a "greaseless leakless water pump" being better, your comment tends to mislead. First off, all of the new leakless pumps I know about require a shot of grease every year or so, so that really does not make them "greaseless". The leakless part does not guarantee they will never leak. I know from personal experiences that after the engine has seen enough miles, the 'leakless' WILL begin to leak just like an original pump. So in reality, all the modern pump does is create the Model-A owner to become lazy-er and sidestep doing maintenance that they are supposed to be doing. So, is this "better"? I don't think so!!


.

[Richard Wilson]

If in this case "die" means dead and gone, I think another category needs to be added to the poll. GOOD INTENTIONS. Over the last 40 years or so, I have seen more Model A's destroyed by an owner with "good intentions" than have ever been killed off because of simple mechanical or electrical problems. It is way easier to tear one apart than to put it back together. The lucky ones are torn apart, and after the owner looses interest, or life issues set in, the pieces are kept in a dry basement or garage and at some point may be sold. More common, I think, is that over time the cars and parts are pushed outside behind the garage or barn and left.

If "die" means temporarily stopped on side of road, it is almost always electrical.

[redmodelt]

4th, Fuel.

[MikeK]

It's the electrons. The new replacement ones leak out all over the place.

[P.S.]

Brent, I respectfully disagree with your statement about the original 80+ year old ford condensers being better than modern ones.

Original condensers were made with a layer of foil and a layer of thin wax impregnated condenser paper and rolled then dipped in wax or sometimes transformer tar. The old condensers could withstand slightly more heat, however the paper disintegrated over time, not because of use. The paper itself wasn't free of all acids and simply starts coming apart all by itself, even if sitting on a shelf. When the paper loses mechanical strength, the foil "electrodes" will short out internally and the component is "dead".

The new condensers (the good ones) are made with foil and mylar or polypropelyne film. That material is much more stable over time. Also, modern condensers can be "self healing" in the event of an internal arc wheareas the originals are toast.

[green30coupe]

Originally Posted by MikeK

It's the electrons. The new replacement ones leak out all over the place.

Some components even leak all their smoke out!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by P.S.

Brent, I respectfully disagree with your statement about the original 80+ year old ford condensers being better than modern ones.

Again, this is where this whole thing is misleading to someone who does not understand. I agree with you that technology has advanced HOWEVER the original units in their day were quite satisfactory and provided above-average service life. The type condensor that you mention really makes no noticeable increase in performance, ...it just adds longevity. Therefore it really is not "much better".

Paul, please remember a condensor is/was considered an expendable item, ...meaning just like spark plugs, the ignition points, engine oil, etc., there is a suggested replacement time that was prescribed for items such as this, --then, and now. It was a task that was included in what was called a Tune-up. It is the car owner who is not performing these required maintenance items that comes with Model-A ownership. At regular intervals, these cars require the brakes to be adjusted, the clutch to be adjusted, the oil to be changed, the chassis greased, lube levels checked in gear boxes, tire pressures to be checked, fuel sediment bulb drained, fan belt adjusted, battery cables cleaned, electrical connections tightened, ...and a Tune-up. Modern cars rarely require any of these items to be done (possibly with the exception of oil changes which many drivers fail to do anyway!) therefore Model-A owners choose to overlook the proper maintenance of their Model-A too. It has been said over and over throughout the years that Model-A ownership is not for everyone, ...and while I am definitely NOT pointing at you, I do agree with the statement that there some Model-A owners who need to be driving a Toyota instead of a Model-A. In reality though, doesn't this very statement apply to many other items in our life if we are not going to be responsible with that item?

.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by MikeK

It's the electrons. The new replacement ones leak out all over the place.

I think all the new electrons today are made in China and of poor quality.

[Purdy Swoft]

Electrical problems will put a model A in a coma. There isn't much that will actually kill one.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

But see Bill, your very comments is what causes confusion!! Nothing you said could be further than the truth in reality, ...it just seems believable to you so you blurted it out.

Taking for example your last two. Hoses are not better today, they are worse. The original hoses were made from natural rubber, --not synthetic. Same applies with tires.

Your comment about the condensors is untruthful too. Yes, media hype has convinced you that the new Burn-proof condensor is better than the original condensor but that is not an accurate statement either. The Ford-made condensors are/were a better product than the new condensors, but the new condensors are a better product than the Argentiean-made, and the cheap ones that surfaced during the 40's thru the 70's that many people had. Therefore an aftermarket item is what tarnished the reputation of the original Ford-made item.

Now as far as a "greaseless leakless water pump" being better, your comment tends to mislead. First off, all of the new leakless pumps I know about require a shot of grease every year or so, so that really does not make them "greaseless". The leakless part does not guarantee they will never leak. I know from personal experiences that after the engine has seen enough miles, the 'leakless' WILL begin to leak just like an original pump. So in reality, all the modern pump does is create the Model-A owner to become lazy-er and sidestep doing maintenance that they are supposed to be doing. So, is this "better"? I don't think so!!


.

Brent, my so called "BLURTING OUT" is just my own personal opinion, not trying to mis-lead anyone. Who of us were around back then to KNOW how dependable some parts, etc really was?
And, yes, there are REALLY greaseless water pumps supplied! With "DUMMY" fittings & NO hole going into the bearing itself. I didn't invent the term, "LEAKLESS", that's just seller HYPE!
IF I'm SO far off "BASE", should I QUIT posting??
Bill W. (Also, I was just havin' a little FUN with My Friend, Fred.)

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by green30coupe

Some components even leak all their smoke out!

pesky little electrons, ive heard if you capture all the smoke and blow it back in the electrical hoses it will work again

[brum1]

No doubt mordern technology is much improved and more reilable. This is fact and proven by data. But forget the data, everyone knows modern technolgy can go 100k with no major issues.

But that not why we own a Model A- we are interested in how things were done and like to keep them that way.

[roccaas]

Which new cars sold this month will still be on the road, worked on, and driven in parades 83 years from now?

I wonder if Henry and Edsel considered that folks would still be keeping their A's, T's, and Flatheads alive in the 21st Century?