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Old 10-24-2011, 09:09 PM   #11
ems customer service
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: detroit mich
Posts: 162
Default Re: 1936 ford coupe floor pan help

Quote:
Originally Posted by lodown2003 View Post
got the body off the frame and the shell is down to bare metal.next up is the front floor pan. The floor is in good shape, except near the front kick panels and rocker panels. Should i try to save it or should i go with new floor. I think going with new is the way to go .what do you guys think, and whats a good product? Ems looks like they carry a nice floor pan,also should i weld some braces in before i remove old floor? Hope somebody out there has gone through this process.
i wrote a few years ago cant remember for which type of customers car, it has alot of info in it. It is good for a general plan of how to do body work. If you need more help call customer service 216-541-4585

hope this help "the ems guy"

guys if you want to ad or change a sentance send me a pm.
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4-20-07

misc. Topics on automotive sheet metal body work

with the thousands of questions fielded by ems customer service every year some basic thoughts rise to the surface

the main question is to which area of the car to begin, some think it depends a lot on the condition of the body. But in reality the starting point is the same the amount of work per step changes.

To many guys start with the frame, and getting that ego boosting motor and trany in place . Well a lot of guys remove the the body to do frame and causes problems,

a rusty body that is weak will flex when removed, and even though the rust may only be the rocker panels. Movement on critical body alignments points can move.. So proceeding with a least rough in metal work would be a minimum.before removing the body. The number guys who call asking about saggy doors and what to do.

Planning is the key to a successful resto job, although i complain about guys doing the engine and trany first i would like to plan for the the engine and trany when starting there body work.

The 2 most critical area’s of a old street body is the firewall and tailpan, why?? Each of these part as often changed. The firewall on early pre 48 bodies usually is changed to handle the small block or big block motor . The changing of the firewall and tailpan can cause a twist in the body , it is best to set the firewall in place so it fits well to the surrounding front cowl. Often the lower cowl panels need repair but it is not of concern at the moment. After getting the firewall in lace

we need to jump to the rear tailpan under the trunk lid, the tailpan is a difficult job for a few reasons.

Tailpans have a trunk lid to content with and often some very shapely body line and reveals. These all must line up perfectly or the repair just looks bad..

The when a tailpan is removed a number of issue’s are in play. First the rear 1/4 panels are basically flapping in the wind cause the tailpan and often the inner trunk floor extension has been removed,

the 1/4 panel which roll around a bit to meet up with the tailpan , line up the tailpan to the body lines on the 1/4 panel. Now bring down the trunk lid to meet up with the tailpan set the height of the tailpan. We like to expect a gap between the trunk lid gap to be 1/8 of inch. Although it could go as low as 1/16 or as large as 3/16 and it may never be the same totally around the trunk lid.

If the trunk lid or body lines do match up a common issue is the height of the 1/4. The 1/4’s may need to be shimmed up or down to square the basic geometric shape of the tailpan. Now if the trunk lid still does not close or line up correctly . When can have worn trunk lid hinges allowing the trunk lid to move at every opening or closing.( more common then you think.) and now for the most unbelievable issue we have seen at ems automotive.

The trunk lid is relatively a thinly shaped panel, even a car that has had soft clean life has experienced many openings of the trunk lid the closing (slamming of the trunk lid even by the center located handle. The trunk lid can and will slowly lose the arch or side to side curve of oem production,

this means the trunk lid widens slowly as it loses its curve, even
though there has not been any body damage to the trunk lid it will flatten slightly, with only a 1/8 on each side it does not take for much for the trunk lid to not fit the replacement tailpan. With all this to consider the way we look at is that to make the tailpan and both 1/4’s fit the trunk lid . The idea behind this it make the car look good at the car show.

We have skipped the floor pans front and rear along with the trunk floor for a reason. Repairing the floors and trunk floor will lock in the body structure. Making the proper fit up of outer body difficult.

After the repairing the firewall and rear tailpan we can now move to the side of the car this would mean rockers lower front 1/4 and lower front cowl. On pre-48 cars the lower front cowl is more of a problem then the post 49 cars aswell on the post 49 cars we have lower rear 1/4 panel panel to deal with.

The replacement of the lower front cowl on pre-48 cars is difficult cause it usually includes the lower front door post and the bolt pattern for the front fenders. 2 critical area’s to align properly, the front door would be the lead issue here as the front fenders have some flex built into them. So there is some latitude.

Then lets jump to the lower front rear 1/4 and fill in with the rocker panel, here again we want the door to fit the door opening we do this by making the opening fit the door, this is the time we can adjust the panels to achieve the desired 1/8 inch door gap. Why do we do this, well when we are at the cruise night every one will see and judge how well the doors fit and the trunk lid, nobody will be lifting up the carpeting to measure to see if you have equal distance in floor ribbing.

Now if you have a post 49 car then we add the lower rear 1/4 panels behind the wheel opening , this section is put on after the lower front 1/4 , for these years of cars the lower front 1/4 is the lead part on side repair. The rear section is just line up the wheel opening and go. If fender skirts are used then they must be check for fit before final welding.

We have talked about alot of fitting and adjusting and there have been much talk on how to do this. I like the simple and unconventional method , we use steel pop rivets, it is easier to fit the panel put a few pop rivets in and check for fit, the problem with tack welding is it requires cutting or grinding to change and could make your weld edge a mess when final welding begins and then there are the method of cleco’s or some other fancy system.




Well pop rivets are cheap and if you need a 100 rivets well it only $3 bucks. Why i like the steel rivet is when i go to weld i can weld right through the rivet. Rivets that are welded over can be drilled and spot welded to finish also the cleco clamps can get in the way welding making mistakes easier,.

The old timers say gas welding, well there called old timers cause there in the stone age and hammer welding was invented before gas welding and is more about bragging then good welding, we recommend m.i.g welding with a covering gas like co2. Any 110 volt can do the job, just get the biggest and most name brand you can afford. The cheaper ones only take a lot longer to do the job then the bigger ones. This applies to sheet metal only frame work well that is a another story.

Now that the outside sheet metal is in place it is time to finish the floor and trunk, pretty much drop it and go now if you need to fit and trim the floors to fit so what your car is gonna look good on the outside.

All floor pans are held up by some type of floor brace or stiffener, many of
these are available some are not depending on your car. If there are none available angle iron can work but is not great looking underneath some type of square or rectangular tubing is strong and looks good, dont forget to beef up the area where your seat will bolt to the floor, it is best to bolt the seat to the floor brace but it may not line up, some heavier steel plate 1/8 thick is good for this and make it big enough to grab your seat belt bolts too!

When setting the trunk floor make it look good , but have some planning done for the gas tank. If change the gas tank check with the mfg. To see if any special mounting requirements are needed it is much better to weld them on
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