Quote:
Originally Posted by BillCNC
It cost the same amount of money to make a part correctly as it does to make one incorrectly using the same materials and processes. So in all honesty, to me, it's not a money issue and the blame should be shared with the MFG's and the distributors. First the MFG for making the part incorrectly, and secondly, the distributor for accepting incorrectly made parts.
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Bill, I totally disagree with this statement! There are many details of a Model-A part that can be omitted to save money. Let's use your Tudor's exterior Door Handles for example. The amount of extra dies and tooling to manufacture an aesthetically authentic handle is WAY more complex than the way they are made now. So realistically will the consumer pay $150 for a door handle? History has proven the average Model-A hobbyist won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillCNC
MFG's:
It is obvious that just about every bad part I have gotten in the mail, was machined incorrectly, or made from molds that should have been retired in the 80's and new ones made. If the MFG, inspected every 25-50th part, they could see things are starting to go out of whack all because of tool wear. Hit stop on the CNC or stop the mill, lathe or whatever machine it is and measure the tool. If it's found to be out of spec but still usable, change the tool offset measurement and then hit the go button. If not, then replace the tool. It's that easy. That's one of the few job's of the machine operator. Load parts, run the program, take part the part out, wash rinse and repeat. He should be visually inspecting the newly made parts he just removed and then put it with the rest of them. He should also take a part every now and then and measure it to ensure all dimensions are correct. If not, stop and figure out what went wrong and correct it. The bid for the job has accounted for this.
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Again, this is just not real-world in this hobby. Using your Model-A front fenders as the example, the fender dies are probably 20-25 years old now, and as Bob told me, they have been re-worked until they can no longer be re-worked. The issue is the costs to have new dies made to reproduce 1931 Model A fenders vs a ROI far exceeds what a typical businessman deems prudent to spend on this project. Businessmen in this industry have known these dies had major issues, and they have heard Bob say he was not going to make new ones, so if someone thought it was going to be lucrative, new dies would have been made and new fenders would have been marketed a decade or two ago.
As for Q/C with jobshops check tool wear and such, ...again, based on what I know, most Model-A parts manufacturers cannot afford top-level shops, ...simply because the costs are too great per item and the market will not bear this added costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillCNC
Distributors and Retailers:
They're part is that they accept bad parts, and sometimes knowingly saying it's the only thing there is. These are the folks who are at the front of the line of quality control. If they let the crap slide, far more crap will come until we are at this point in time. They don't want to take the trouble of sourcing known MFG that are good and have a good reputation for making things. If the part is unavailable and there is enough call for it, someone will step up to claim a monopoly on that part. Will it make them rich, probably not, but it is a stream of income.
Myself:
Most of the time I look at the part I need to purchase. Sometime I have to have them shipped but most of the time I can get them locally and when I do, I have them drag out every one of the particular part I'm looking for and go through them all and pick the one I want. I consider them raw blanks that need to be reworked. Picking the expensive incorrectly made part over the cheaper incorrectly made part doesn't happen so if their both wrong, I'm saving some money.
Again, a correctly made part cost the exact same as an incorrectly made part. I'd like to see them get away with this with car parts for the new cars. An NC code does exactly what it's told to do including destroying itself if you program it to. Not paying attention to tool wear/breakage and using inferior materials is 95% of all incorrectly made parts. The other 5% is simply just bad designs to start with.
Numbers do matter...
Regards
Bill
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Again, I think you have a huge misunderstanding of how many reproduction parts are made, and what is involved. From an insider's perspective I can tell you it is all about market pricing, the manufacturing costs, and the ROI. As far as making new car parts vs. old car parts, the comparisons are not even close. In the new car manufacturing world, an OEM supplier likely stamps more front fenders in just one day than what a Model-A fender Manufacturer would sell in one decade. Think about that for a moment.