H&H Flatheads
 

Beware of H&H Flatheads.
I Dan Schwartz bought from Jody Martin a 59AB block that was repaired and machine by H&H Flatheads of La Crescenta, Ca.

The motor has been used for about two thousands miles with the results of:

• Eight sleeves that were installed and bored and honed were done incorrect which has resulted in heavy blow by and excessive oil use. The sleeves have moved down in the block two thousands of an inch. The metal in sleeve no 2 cylinder has failed with small patched of voids in the cylinder walls. Water is leaking into cylinders 1 and 2.

• The sealer paint that was used was done wrong which resulted in the paint flaking and got into the oil passages.

H&H will not stand behind there work and refuses to compensate me for my loses.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

well good luck with your dispute and sorry for you misfortune.....was Jody Martin part of H&H or a third party? if its a third party in between you and H&H i can see their reluctance to settle with you.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

i trust that you have done an accurate inspection, before you posted these remarks.
here is your quote: "The sleeves have moved down in the block two thousands of an inch."
since normal copy paper is about four thousands ( .004") are you saying the sleeves have moved down 1/2 the thickness of a piece of common paper? how did you measure that?

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

Thank you for your replay 2 thousands 4 thousands the sleeves have moved down in the block and the metal in sleeve cylinder 2 has failed and is leaking water into the cylinder.
Dan

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Pictures would be helpful. So would correct grammar.

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Thank you for the reply and the grammer lesson, sending you a picture of the block assembled I am looking for a picture of the block now with the sleeves moved.

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I always stand behind my work but after 5 years and trading hands a warranty is out of the question on a machined block. To crack the block between cylinders shows over torquing. So no there can not be warranty after 5 years. I have built a reputation of standing behind my engines but this is way past the deadline. I am sorry this block did not work out but I am not in the position to hand out money 5 years later based on your word you assembled the engine correctly and never over heated the engine. If you came to me instead of the Internet I would have machined a new block for you.
Thanks
Mike
H&H Flatheads

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

Mike,
Your last sentence is not good to read. I take it as you saying "if you would have not told everyone I would have fixed it but now that you told everyone, I don't want to" I would have stuck with the 5 years later and owner assembled motor, may have overheated for voiding the warranty.
"If you came to me instead of the Internet I would have machined a new block for you." Really?

I am not trying to pick a fight,,,I have not used H&H and would if I needed a flathead. Just voicing my oponion. This is an open forum. ;)

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In your quote you state h&H refuses compensation either you spoke to him or you didn't. Which is it?

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I did my homework on H+H before contracting them to put together a turn-key engine for me. I like the fact that they are a family owned business and I know other customers that have been happy with their work. They take their jobs seriously and believe they would have worked with Mr. Schwartz if he had taken the time to talk to Mike directly These engines are not cheap to build and investing in someone else to build one is diffently a leap of faith. My opinion

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

That is not what I meant by that buy that but it is always better to contact the parties involved rather than trying to spread misrepresentation on a forum.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

This is fun.

I once watched an episode of "Paper Chase" therefore I'm qualified to post.

Schwartz v. H&H

1. Does Schwartz have grounds to seek compensation from H&H for an engine block machined by H&H, but purchased from 3rd party, Jody Martin, the original purchaser from H&H?

2. Did Schwartz enter into a contract at any time with H&H?

3. Did Schwartz receive a warranty from either Jody Martin or H&H?

4. If any warranty existed after 5 years, did Jody Martin have the power to convey that warranty to Schwartz?

... excuse me, but the microwave just stopped beeping. My popcorn is ready.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

My concern is you have no idea what Jody Martin may or may not have done with the engine .... unless you live in the same house. I assume when you said H&H did the work you have documenation with the dates and exact work done. I do not know Jody, H&H, or you so my concern is what is documented as a direct result of H&H versus what is assumed. Unless you can provide a clean documented history of H&H to you one would wonder is a libel suit is a more appropriate discussion. Can you provide such documentation????? If you can not then I think that an internet discussion in inappropriate.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

I think H&H are quite right. 5 years is way too long, and in 99% of cases, the warranty only applies to the original purchaser, ie: Jody Martin.
Sorry DS, I dont think you have a case. FWIW: H&H are one of the most respected flathead shops in business,

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

I can only speak to the dealings I've had with Mike at H&H.
If all my customers practiced business the way Mike does, the world would be a better place. Not once in over 50 transactions have I ever been disappointed.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

dschwartz- Dan, H&H flatheads are the best of people & machine shop no better person than Mike, I agree with Scott De Shields and others like Uncle Max you can add me to bunch also. Harold central coast Ca.

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Explain to me why H&H should stand behind a 2nd party sale. Must be on a differant planet. Go after the guy you bought it from not someone that did the work 5 years ago. I must be missing something here.
TIME OUT

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

Sorry, Mr Schwartz,I don't beileve you got a case against H&H .In fact they could have a case against you .JMHO.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

Sounds like

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

We have 3 of their flatheads and one model A touring motor, great family to deal with and they stand behind their work. Mike is always a phone call away if I'm having a problem, couldn't ask for more.

Todd Samson

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

Thanks for all the support. And as always just give me a call if there is a problem and I will try to take care of it.
Thanks
Mike Herman
H&H Flatheads

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

H&H are a great company and Mike Herman a professional to deal with. I took a leap of faith with H&H half way around the world, they delivered and I wouldnt hesitate doing business with Mike or H&H again, he is true to his word and stands buy his workmanship and builds one helluva flathead.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

:cool: Attachment 47432

This is awesome! Thanks for that, we are here to help people not hurt people.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

what were you looking for in airing your negativity here? so I bought a new Ford 5 years ago, the warranty expired at 3 years/36 months and you just bought it from the guy I sold it to. the alternator goes out and you want to hold Ford Motor Company responsible?????

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

I had a standard block I was sure would clean up a .020. I wanted the pistons when I brought it to the machinist so against Mike's advice I ordered them. Well It did not clean up at .020 and I had to humbly call back to get bigger ones. He sent me the new ones and I returned the old ones. I asked what I owed him for shipping and he said I was all set. I can't testify for all his customers and every business is going to have a few not satisfied but Mike took care of MY mistake.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

MAYBE .... some of us are making some mistakes in responding to posts like this one.

"dschwartz" posted what he believed to be an honest warning about what he thought was unfair treatment by H&H. Notice he did not ask for the forum's opinion ... but, naturally you can bet he was going to get it.

MAYBE ... the best thing to do is discuss whether or not he has a valid complaint against H&H. Suggesting that he is a whiner or that he's made mistakes in grammar does not help settle the main issue.

Some folks are quick to attack the person rather than the person's ideas ... there's a huge difference in trying to overall discredit someone and trying to debate a specific issue. "dschwartz" is a member of the Ford Barn. He may or may not be wrong, but deserves respect in any case.

Further, it does not really matter how many engines H&H has built or how fairly Mike Herman has treated his other customers. The issue is whether or not "dschwartz" has a valid complaint against H&H with HIS engine. I bet Mike will agree.

MAYBE ... no matter how much you disagree with "dschwartz", it's best he post his concerns here. I think he's found that the best solution is to discuss it directly with Mike Herman ... he learned that here. I also hope he will continue posting on the Ford Barn.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

I know several people that work on old cars and since none of them actually do engines they send the customer to the rebuilders directly to avoid the problems of the third party warranty.

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I live in so cal,not far from h&h,lots of engines in my area,Haven't heared any bad news. Not fare to mike to spread gossip. Just my opinion for what its worth.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

When I install sleeves I leave a step in the bottom of the bore where the new sleeve is pressed down against the shoulder. It becomes impossible for a sleeve to move down regardless of the abuse or mis-use which might occur. I am not aware of the specific details of the subject engine but, unless the sleeves were original Ford replacement sets there should not be any reason for sleeve movement.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

I always step my sleeves in. The over torque pulled the deck up and cracked it and caused the sleeves to move. On the bottom of the cylinder there is no gap or even machine part line showing.

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I am assuming he bought the motor second hand to save money. I am sure it was very expensive still. That would make me very unhappy also, but I would never go back to the original builder about it. Maybe to the person who sold it to me, although there was probably a reason it was sold. I think that posting the story is fine, education for all. I think that to exclaim that H&H is to blame is just rediculous.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

Dan: Didn't you think the "5 years ago" part was an important detail in this discussion? And where's Jody Martin in this picture? Did you buy it from him last week or 5 years ago?

Mike H: If he didn't contact you first, then why is he claiming you denied a warrantee?

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

I've followed this post here and on the EFV8C/A website and FWIW here is my take on this....
Mike Herman (H&H Flatheads) you have a very good reputation and I doubt this post will have any negative affect on you or your business.
Mr Schwartz I don't think you made the best decision to post your grievance with H&H on a public forum, BUT I certainly can feel your pain and frustration over what has happened to your engine.

I guess a good ending to this story might be that Mike Herman does offer to help Mr Schwartz in some way to get his engine problems straightened out. Even though this would not be expected, it would definitely be a good faith gesture on behalf of H&H.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

DITTO !!!!!!:eek: SHOULD BE THE END.......

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After all of the public posting and hearing the feeling of grief of the orig poster, I don't think anything Mike could offer at this time will satisfy him enough to actually become a customer of H & H 'S , so if I were Mike , I wouldn't bother.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

If the damage was caused by over torquing, which seems to be the case, there is no obligation by H&H of any kind to repair this mess.

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IMHO, if my only knowledge of H&H Flatheads came from this thread, and I had a flathead that needing rebuilding, I wouldn't hesitate to send it to them. JMTCW.

Re: H&H Flatheads
 

.


Nuff said.



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Re: H&H Flatheads
 

Man, seems like a nice enough offer. I agree with Mike that this should have been handled off the "net".

Just because it is an open forum and folks can post whatever they darn well please doen't mean they should.

I think we can all learn a lesson from Sen. Anthony Weiner and Brett Farve. Just because technology lets you take and send pictures of your junk, doesn't mean you should or it is a good idea. As we know, it only leads you down a road to trouble.

Same goes with blasting a guy's business over the net. It just isn't the first step or the right thing to do if you never contacted them first.