Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

I've been a model T guy for 25 years and served as the President to the Model T Ford Club International, and in all those years the four seat open model T car was always called the Touring by Ford. However, when the second model A (yes, that's another mystery) came out in 1928 they called the four seat open car a Phaeton. The word Phaeton had been around since the curved dash cars prior to the advent of the model T in 1909, but Ford never used this word, as far as I know, during manufacturing of the model T.

Thus, does anyone know why Ford started using the older word, Phaeton, when the 1928 Ford was introduced?

I still have't found the answer as to why Ford went back to the top of the alphabet, A, with the release of the 1928 Ford either when clearly there was a Model A Ford built and sold in 1903.

Mark

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

Story goes that the car was such a radical change from anything in the lineup before hand that it was it's own start of a new lineage and it needed to start with A again.

My guess in the touring/phaeton question, is that Henry wanted to distance the new A from the old T and was looking for a classier name for the car hence Phaeton.

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

Also, most of us Aussies call the phaeton a tourer.

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

I suspect Edsel picked the name.

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

Hey Mr. Williams, great to see you here, ...and enjoyed sitting under your presidency!

I have one thought to add to your question, ...why didn't Ford call the 'A' Roadster a Runabout? Adding to that, he used the term Roadster on the 'T' in the early portion but later versions were named Runabouts.

While other's comments above are clearly plausible, I suspect we need to understand how two different men named Ford was involved. Defining each individual's exact duties regarding the Model-A will likely never be known. I suspect the naming fits into that category.

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

It's commonly accepted that the Model "A" was evolutionary, not revolutionary. Nothing on the 1928 Model "A" was new, only "lifted" or altered from other cars already on the road. Run down the list of items stressed in Ford's sales promotion about the Model "A" (shock absorbers, three-speed transmission, safety glass windshield, single coil ignition, four-wheel brakes, etc.) and each one can be found in competitors' cars pre-dating the Model "A", sometimes by a decade or more. That does not take away from the Model "A" just because it was not revolutionary. Very few cars for the masses are revolutionary, other than perhaps the "Model T" (which was really a further refinement of the previous Models N, R and S). I consider using the best designs available at the time in the construction of the new Model "A" to be a wise application of the old adage not to reinvent the wheel. Why not use what had proven itself to be a good design?
Going back in Ford history to the letter "A" for the new model in 1928 (late 1927) has always been explained and accepted as gospel in response to the car being so radically different from the Model "T" that it was like starting all over again from the beginning of the alphabet. I have never been totally convinced this is the real reason. Consider the semantics and "sound" of applying the remainder of the alphabet following the letter "T". Can you imagine trying to sell the public on a car called the "Model U" or "Model V" or even "Model W"? Calling it the "Model X" would have resulted in choruses of derisive laughter as a mystery car and would have left itself wide open for a self-sustaining joke machine, as would calling it the "Model Y". Can't you just see the wags saying: "Y did you buy a Model "Y" Ford"? or disgruntled customers asking "Y did I buy a Model "Y"?" Finally, marketing a "Model Z" Ford would have been a company advertising department's worst nightmare. I realize that some foreign markets used oddball letters for their version of Fords, but these were always considered secondary markets. (My apologies to our foreign Model "A" owners for that statement, but it's true. :) )
So, what was left but to go back to a letter that few people would remember from a quarter century prior: "Model "A"". It even sounds pleasing and is marketable, as the letter "A" always has been. As far as I can tell, it was Floyd Clymer, who claimed in one of his 1950's books about the Model "A" Ford that the reason for choosing the letter "A" designation was because the new Ford was so revolutionary - which it patently was NOT. Old Floyd stepped on his own anatomy many times in his statements that proved to be incorrect. I believe this was another one of his SWAGs that sounds plausible on the surface. Can anyone furnish documented evidence that Ford went back to the letter "A" because its car was so revolutionary? If so, I stand corrected. But I'm guessing the company management just went along with this idea suggested by the advertising and/or marketing department.
Marshall

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

I think the answer to all these questions, as Marshall has suggested, has more to do with marketing than anything else. Ford was locked in a competitive struggle with GM and even Henry had to acquiese to Edsel to the need to compete - even to build what became the Model A. Its always important to remember that companies don't make decisions, people make decisions. If a decision doesn't make market sense, you have to start looking for personal emotional rationales. The decision to rename body types may be a little of both. Edsel was know to be enamoured of European styles, and that combined with the marketing need to distance Ford from the Model T somewhat could have combined to result in the mix of names.

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

The answers above indicate a good grasp of why the Ford Motor Company (specifically Edsel Ford) made the name change from Touring to Phaeton. It is reflected in the song that was popular at the time of the introduction of the NEW FORD : "Henry's Made A Lady Out of Lizzie".

The grand marques of the day - Lincoln, Packard, Cunningham, and the like, never had a two seat (or 3 with jump seats) open car with such a lowly (think Chevy, Ford, Dort, Dodge, Velie, etc.) moniker as 'Touring'. While the term 'Touring' was often seen in the teens & twenties, by the 1930's, the high-buck marques had all went to the more genteel and aristocratic "Phaeton". Ford was just joining the parade. Remember, by the time the NEW FORD came on the scene, the Ford Motor Company also had had the LINCOLN MOTOR CAR COMPANY (bought at Edsel's urging), for a good number of years.

Edsel was instrumental in working to bring the NEW FORD in line with the more prestigious Lincoln of the Ford line. In fact the NEW FORD (Model A) was often called 'The Baby Lincoln". As President of the Lincoln Motor Car Company Edsel brought a number of Lincoln elements to his development of the Ford Model A of 1928. Some did not work out (the multiple disc clutch), others did quite well. The name 'Phaeton' was one of many tactics to help the NEW FORD gain increased respect and 'panache'.

And I think he succeeded.

*P.S. - With my past ownership of several marques of the teens & '20's, I felt a kinship to the term "Touring", and had my Calif. DMV registration indicate that my 1928 Ford was a 'Touring'. That was over 50 years ago. And today, I still enjoy that it is registered as a 'Touring'.

- Doug Vieyra, Eureka, CAlif

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

I agree, The word Phaeton just conjures up the thought of a fancier automobile!

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

There were horse drawn Phaetons, and bicycles called Roadsters, so the term sure wasn't "modern" in 1928. Bob

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

The introduction of the V-8 killed the alphabetical model designation. Good thing otherwise where would we be today? Would a new Ford Mustang be, by now, the Model C 'cubed' or 'sub-three'?? Sounds pretty exciting only a 'Ford GT' can pull off the letter thing with any value, and or the GT40:o

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

Worth considering

http://abarnyard.com/temp/SAE_body_types-1.jpg
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http://abarnyard.com/temp/SAE_body_types-2.jpg

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

Great insight by all, thank you for the wonderful responses. I'm sure marketing had something to do with it, but I bet there was much discussion by Edsel and Henry back in the day on both. I think it worked...most folks (at least today) don't even know there was a 1903 Model A Ford.

Brent, thanks for the kind words too. I miss some of the old crew at the MTFCI. Lately I've bee doing more work on my Model As than my Ts.

R/Mark

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

They have always been called Tourers around my area and for years I wonder what a Phaeton was and what was the difference
On my 1st visit to the USA found that they were the same car

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

While it was not revolutionary for the automobile industry, it was for the Ford company.

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

I fitted a 1928 pheaton body to a car when the original van body was way beyond repair . I had to notify the UK DVLA (DMV) that the body change had been made . I sent in pics etc etc and advised I had fitted a Ford pheaton body . When the ammended title came back it was recorded as a tourer . So it looks like in the UK a pheaton is still a tourer !!!

John still in winter rain Suffolk County England

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

[B]What Doug says makes good sense to me. Wayne/B]

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

Came across this British advert for the "New Ford Tourer":

http://www.nostalgiastore.co.uk/file...A%20Tourer.jpg

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

Question one and two possibly attributed to Edsel. (1) entirely New Ford, (2) yes, Phaeton does speak of a FANCIER style of vehicle. Yup, my rwo cents worth...

Re: Phaeton vs. Touring with the 1928 Ford
 

How about "XL"?