The Ford Barn - Lincoln Y block

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- - Lincoln Y block (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210566)

Re: Lincoln Y block

Just saying Somerville isn't the Pilot Plant. Pilot Plant was for pre-production test builds and not available for public purchase. The 2x4 set up wasn't released until later in the '56 model year through dealers.

Sal

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by scicala (Post 1614845)

Sal,

Did you read all of the referring URL's I posted?

Re: Lincoln Y block

This is the URL you posted that shows the pilot plant I was referring to. Now used to help develop assembly lines for new products. They also used to build Lincolns and Edsels there in the 50's.
I worked at Ford in powertrain engineering for about 24 years, and went there many times to look at vehicles, or go to meetings. It's the only Pilot Plant I was ever aware of at Ford.

Sal

https://macsmotorcitygarage.com/the-...ed-auto-plant/

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by scicala (Post 1615016)

This is the URL you posted that shows the pilot plant I was referring to. Now used to help develop assembly lines for new products. They also used to build Lincolns and Edsels there in the 50's.

I worked at Ford in powertrain engineering for about 24 years, and went there many times to look at vehicles, or go to meetings. It's the only Pilot Plant I was ever aware of at Ford.

Sal

https://macsmotorcitygarage.com/the-...ed-auto-plant/

OK, not arguing here. Just trying to figure out something.

Quote:

When the Continental Division was folded after the 1957 model year, the plant became home base for the new Edsel brand. Here, a 1958 Edsel convertible duplicates the Continental Mark II’s pose. But then Edsel soon went kaput, and the building eventually was converted into a pilot plant.

Proper name: Ford New Models Production Development Center.

Somerville (MA) (prior Pilot Pant) was closed just prior to this (end of FORD dedicated EDSEL plant assy).

So what I am reading is that the Pilot Plant (or designation) was moved from MA to Dearborn with the MA plant closing.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1523232977

Re: Lincoln Y block

The below quoted post from thread- http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic137290.aspx

Quote:

Lou (6/2/2018)

Sommerville , was in Massachusetts just outside Boston, they stopped assembling Ford cars in March 1957 so the plant could be retooled for Edsel production.

It was never a "pilot" plant, after the plant closed for good in 1959, the letter "S" was assigned in 1964 to mean pilot plant but never used as all pilot work was done by Dearborn Steel Tubing and carried a Dearborn. Mich code.

I have seen 3 56 Fords with the "S" engine code (2 sedans and a 1 two door Victoria) all were built at Long Beach, CA and all had factory installed Lincoln 368 engines, the engine was listed as a police option.

As far as 7 being build I would ask where he got his information.

If this truly is a 368 factory powered 56 Victoria it could be a very valuable car when restored.

Quote:

In TSB 366 dated 8/6/56 there is a paragraph about the "S" code cars.

Para D*2

312 Cubic inch eight cylinder engines - 1956 Fairlane, Customline, and Mainline Models

We have been advised that approximately sixty-five 312 cubic inch engines with automatic transmissions and four hundred and fifty-five 312 cubic inch engines with standard transmissions have been used in 1956 Fairlane, Customline, and Mainline models in place of the 292 cubic inch engine with the four barrel carburetor.

Since these engines were shipped with the regular passenger car decals on the rocker covers it will not be possible to identify them by this means.

The identification of such 1956 units with these engines in this case is made by the letter "S" in the vehicle serial number and a daub of yellow heat resisting paint about two inches square on the forward portion of the engine.

Below info from- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pilot_Plant
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Ford Pilot Plant

Ford Pilot Plant facility, located at 17000 Oakwood Boulevard in Allen Park, Michigan, was opened in the summer of 1956 as the original location for the newly created Continental Division, where all Continental Mark II cars were assembled.

It was renamed the Edsel Division Headquarters until 1959, when Edsel was discontinued and later became the New Model Programs Development Center facility, where new models are tested and developed. The role of the pilot plant is to test manufacture new products for the first time, documenting the steps and procedures, before assembly line production begins at the designated factory. The location can manufacture several vehicles at one time, where products are moved from station to station on mobile carriages until the process is complete.[1]

It is located approximately two miles (3.2 km) west of the famou River Rouge facility, and approximately two miles (3.2 km) east of the Ford Dearborn Development Center, and adjacent to the Ford IT Business Innovation Center to the north. Interstate 94 is directly southeast of the facility. Beaumont Hospital Dearborn and Edsel Ford High School are nearby.[2][3]

The debate of this particular 56 FAIRLANE Victoria (*S6SV179817*) continues.

I believe the plant claim confusion comes from the (a) period ASM PLANT CODE CHART (shown in an above post) shows S as being the Pilot Plant which was originally/actually (SOMMERVILLE ASM). The 49/59 FINAL ISSUE MPC chart for example does not show an S ASSEMBLY PLANT.

Somewhere, someone has the true history of the period.

I believe the seller's PILOT PLANT claim was due to a misprint/mistake in the PLANT CHART. In all actuality, the S ENGINE CODE 312's most likely turned up across many final assembly plants.

BTW- It is funny that all of this started with the OP wanting to know if the LYB would fit into a 56 F100 chassis and not a 56 PASS CAR.

Re: Lincoln Y block

Think I have it finally-

The decoding chart shown below reads 49/59 but the chart is actually from the 60/64 MPC (or earlier edition(s).

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1523232977

This explains where the confusion began I believe.

The 56 FARIRLANE Victoria in question has a build code of 8H (08 AUG) which when compared to the mislabeled chart would lead one to believe that the car was built in Somerville and it was wrongfully thought to be a PILOT PLANT which it wasn't.

So Sal, you were correct and I was wrong ... :confused: ...er ... misinformed ... ;)

If FORD did release a 56 FORD with the LYB 368 for POLICE only, it most likely would have been catalogued in the POLICE CATALOG -

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...8&d=1528067114

Same as the 1958 POLICE 361. It was not catalogued in the MPC.

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ (Post 1636111)

Found the offending source- http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...49-59partA.htm

Re: Lincoln Y block

KULTULZ,

Thanks for all of your research ! I wasn't trying to be right about anything. I was just stating things I knew to be true from my experiences at Ford.

Sal

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by scicala (Post 1636522)

KULTULZ,

Thanks for all of your research ! I wasn't trying to be right about anything. I was just stating things I knew to be true from my experiences at Ford.

Sal

I understand Sal. I was just rattling your cage.

I don't care about being wrong or right but just trying to figure things out.

In this example of a vehicle description, I don't think anything was being represented fraudulently but just going with available knowledge.

Somewhere all of this info must be available.

As with the recent 60 FORD HP vehicle description example, big money can be spent for something that is not exactly correct.

There is much knowledge here (forum) when it is put all together.

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Caruso (Post 1396782)

Will the Lincoln Y Block bolt in a 56 ford pickup that had a 292

Quote:

Originally Posted by packrat5 (Post 1397258)

I want to digress a bit. It could be done, but it would not exactly be a bolt in. If you could find a 800 series truck, the front motor mount plate could be used with a 57-60 front cross member, the bell housing and stick stuff maybe could be used with the "granny tranny" An FE stick setup could be adapted with some machine shop work. (good luck with that) Passenger cars never had a stick, but the automatic was the old GM Hydromatic in earlier versions, and the Cruiso was used in later ones. If you really want to lose the y-block,(?) conversion kits are available for almost any other type of engine conversion. When you consider the cost, weight, and parts availability, and other important parameters, the y-block is a way better engine choice. Only my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

Just to try and qualify the OP's question, yes it can be done as per packrat5's post description. A 279/317 or 302/332 HT engine must have been something else as well as the PASS CAR version(s).

The post was hi-jacked by myself as I mis-read LT for PASS CAR. A BENDSTEN adapter would allow use of a modern trans (IMO).

Re: Lincoln Y block

Will a Y Lincoln fit in a 1956? Most will say no. But it is really a yes if you can find
these parts from any F700 up: front motor mount, bellhousing , ram exhaust manifolds.
The rear bellhousing mounts are the same. Only thing is and maybe a good thing, is
for the bellhousing you need 5sp transmission hopefully a overdrive, then mess with the
driveshaft. The fast and easy is a FE with FT front mount, ram exhaust either standard
with light duty 3 or 4speed or automatic. My three 1953 to1956 trucks I slid 391FTs
in there fit like they belong there all parts like exhaust pipes etc on the shelf Napa
all have Clark 5sp Od. Back when I put a 430 in a 1950 F8 most don't know that FE FT
bellhousing fit MEL blocks. I redrilled the flathead flywheel to the 430 to use flathead
starter. Now flip exhaust manifolds so they dump in the front to clear steer box.
Talk about a deep throat sound and blow the doors off any truck loaded but 3 mpg .
So bottom line is I would go with FE : Y blocks, MELs are now tough to find but do as
you wish. or find a truck 302 or 332 Y block setup used into the 1960s.
Sam my proof is I did all this.

Re: Lincoln Y block

HEY big job!

THANX! for that info. It really helps.

Just one thing-

Quote:

...most don't know that FE FTb ellhousing fit MEL blocks

The 58/60 MEL engine(s) had the same bell pattern as the FE. The MEL bell pattern was modified in 1961 to allow the starter motor to fit within the confines of the new 61 LINC uni-body apron rails.

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ (Post 1636625)

HEY big job!

THANX! for that info. It really helps.

Just one thing-

The 58/60 MEL engine(s) had the same bell pattern as the FE. The MEL bell pattern was modified in 1961 to allow the starter motor to fit within the confines of the new 61 LINC uni-body apron rails.

Correct I should have said that. The 1961 change was also the same as 462.

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by big job (Post 1636630)

Correct I should have said that. The 1961 change was also the same as 462.

You're OK...

I just wanted to mention it so somebody won't be cussin' you... :D

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ 03-16-2018 POST #17

Some years ago, a guy posted for show or sale possibly (including photo), a 56 FORD sporting a 368 4V install. The cars Patent Plate Engine Code was S and not cataloged. So most jumped on the band wagon (including myself) that it was a Police install.

Come to find out many years later it was all a misnomer. The S Car was assembled in MA and received the 312 4V.

:eek:

Would you believe I saved the PATENT PLATE photo of the 56 with a 368 LYB install? This was the car that started the S-CODE 368 PI rumor. It also shows the mis-assembled engines went to other assembly plants other than Somerville -

SAN JOSE ASSEMBLY PLANT

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...8&d=1528930066

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by scicala (Post 1615016)

This is the URL you posted that shows the pilot plant I was referring to.

https://macsmotorcitygarage.com/the-...ed-auto-plant/

Now used to help develop assembly lines for new products. They also used to build Lincolns and Edsels there in the 50's.

I worked at Ford in powertrain engineering for about 24 years, and went there many times to look at vehicles, or go to meetings. It's the only Pilot Plant I was ever aware of at Ford.

Sal

First assembly was CONTINENTAL (MARK II) (separate division from LINC, although a LINC drive-train was used). The plant then went to EDSEL assy. LINC and BIRD (1958/) were at WIXOM.

17000 OAKWOOD BLVD.
ALLEN PARK, MI.

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by big job (Post 1636622)

I know the thread as a whole is two years old but, I'll update this post/reply when I have some more pictures to post. I have a Lincoln 317 in my '56 F100. I believe that the exact parts you listed above are what was used for my truck's swap except for the transmission. I have a T98 4 speed instead of the Clark 5 speed.

Re: Lincoln Y block

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZSK (Post 1653020)

I know the thread as a whole is two years old but, I'll update this post/reply when I have some more pictures to post. I have a Lincoln 317 in my '56 F100. I believe that the exact parts you listed above are what was used for my truck's swap except for the transmission. I have a T98 4 speed instead of the Clark 5 speed.

HEY! ...

THANX! for the info ... ;)